Official Languages Committee on Feb. 21st, 2019

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses, Mr. Racine, Mr. Slowey and Mrs. Roy.

Unlike my colleague, Mr. Choquette, I don't have the impression that the government and your department are doing very little. I don't have much experience as a politician. I became a politician in 2015. However, I have never seen a department—and I'm talking here of the federal government; I'm not referring to any party in particular—be as proactive on an issue. You were almost on your knees. Your testimony today, the media, the videos and the reports confirm this. I have never seen a department as proactive as yours. I think that, when it comes to official languages, the government machinery has done more than its part. It even proposed funding the first few years, even if that meant the Ontario government would have to commit to doing its part. There is an expression in Acadia—and I think it's Franco-Acadian—that says that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I won't make an analogy between Doug Ford and a horse, even though I'm sorely tempted to do so.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I didn't think we were in a zoo.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

That's what happened. I haven't learned anything new. We have already heard what is being said and discussed today. A department contacts a province with which it has a bilateral agreement, kneels before it and simply asks it to send a confirmation fax so that it can then send it funds. It even says it can adapt, show all the flexibility it can offer so that, during the first two years, the province can carry out the construction, and it says that for the rest it must assume its share, up to 50¢ on the dollar. That is what I understand and that is what I have heard in the media. I didn't learn anything new this morning.

In addition, I note that you are being diplomatic when you say that the officials of the province in question were muzzled, that they had to follow the government's agenda. It was not a lack of good faith on the part of Ontario officials: it was their government's position.

That said, after January, was there a little bit of openness? Has the Ontario government come forward or have the links, the radar, the telephone cable, and so on been cut off?

[Guylaine F. Roy]

Minister Joly wrote to Minister Mulroney in January, but I don't know if she replied. Government of Ontario officials have made it very clear that they did not have a mandate to make a request and, therefore, it would not be done. They were very clear. Minister Joly wrote a letter, and I don't know if there was follow-up on that.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I don't like bringing up the topic of my next question, but I can't resist. I'm hearing all kinds of theories, including that the federal government could contribute to the entire construction of this Franco-Ontarian university. I'm hearing comments about this, some for and some against.

Is that possible? Have you considered this possibility?

[Guylaine F. Roy]

I'll go back to the comment I made earlier. Education is a provincial responsibility.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I know.

[Guylaine F. Roy]

The federal government respects provincial jurisdiction and it is clear that education comes under provincial jurisdiction. As I understand from the testimony of my colleagues you met a few weeks ago, the Government of Ontario has done some analysis and planning work on the university. These people have done their job, given that education is a provincial responsibility. The legislation was created and is still in force. The province has the planning information, which is what this university could look like. The federal government's contribution is 50% but, as I said, educational institutions across the country are under provincial jurisdiction.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Basically, what I understand, is that we are trapped by the Ontario government's lack of willingness. It doesn't want this university, period. That's the only conclusion we can draw. Am I right to believe that?

[Guylaine F. Roy]

Once again, I would like to point out that education is the province's responsibility and that the province has done some analysis and planning. It questioned whether there should be such a university. It also introduced a bill, which has been adopted. There is now legislation on the Université de l'Ontario français. This issue is under its jurisdiction. We are ready to help, cooperate and support the project, but at a proportion of 50%, given that we are talking about provincial jurisdiction.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I don't have any more questions.

Thank you very much, Mrs. Roy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Arseneault.

We will now continue with Mr. Ouellette.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today.

I want to talk about education and ask you some questions that are specific to the action plan. I am interested in second-language learning, especially French. For example, in Manitoba, 70,000 people know French and English. In my riding alone, there are 6,395 people who speak French and English.

A lot of money is spent on second-language learning in bilingual schools, but we are seeing that once children leave these schools, they don't have much support. They lose their knowledge of French as they become adults. It's a loss of resources, but also a loss of knowledge. Unfortunately, it weakens our capacity to be more open to the world.

I would like to know what the action plan provides to remedy this situation. Under the previous government, Canadian Youth for French was founded by Justin Morrow, an English-speaking student and football player at Université Laval. However, this organization no longer exists. Are there other measures that could be taken to address the loss of ability to learn French or the difficulty in maintaining it?

[Guylaine F. Roy]

The action plan includes measures in the field of education and learning. I talked about the issue of education and what is being done with the provinces and territories. I also talked about one-time projects for the provinces and territories. As I mentioned, there are community and school infrastructure programs.

Close to $63 million was also added to the action plan funds for the recruitment and retention of both first- and second-language teachers.

There is insufficient mention that the action plan contains more specific initiatives. In response to your question, the action plan contains a new initiative for a few million dollars. These are scholarships to facilitate post-secondary learning of French.

There are also the existing Explore and Odyssey programs. These are exchange programs that allow young people to learn another language in another province. There are also programs for—

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Those are small programs.

For example, the Université de Saint-Boniface is a French-language school. There's also the University of Manitoba, which is an English-language school. I learned French 22 years ago.

[Guylaine F. Roy]

Your French is very good.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, that's kind.

I often feel very lacking or threatened by other francophones who speak French extremely well, especially in writing. People sometimes tell me that I have a funny accent, which makes me feel that my French isn't good enough, and I'm not the only one to feel that way.

I find that there isn't anywhere you can feel comfortable practising in French, whether at a university or elsewhere. If you attend a French-language university and make a few mistakes, you are criticized. I remember what was happening in this regard at the Université Laval, which was formerly a Jesuit university.

There isn't really a university where you can feel comfortable using a second language, sometimes English, and doing your work in both languages. I find it unfortunate that there isn't a place in this country where people can continue to learn a second language without having to go to Quebec and receive a scholarship that would benefit only one person. We need a university where people could continue to speak both languages at the post-secondary level.

[Denis Racine]

Canada has a fairly well-established network of French-language colleges and universities that offer settings where people can really learn French and live in French on a daily basis, and where it is promoted.

With regard to programs, under the latest education protocol from 2013 to 2018, the government provided Manitoba with $5.5 million over five years for French second-language instruction.

There are also initiatives that support very important organizations that promote French as a second language, including Canadian Parents for French. This organization plays a very important role across Canada with initiatives aimed at giving people the chance to practise in the other official language.

Lastly, the action plan has an initiative under development. It's a language learning tool that will be developed in the next few years. It will give all Canadians the opportunity to learn the second language using Canadian content. It will be accessible to the general public and will allow people to learn and measure their learning at their own pace. It will be totally free, without user fees. This is an initiative of the action plan.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Chair, I have one last question, if I may.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Go ahead, Mr. Ouellette.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I would like to know what the bilingualism and “trilingualism” plan is for indigenous communities. The federal government is responsible for several schools on indigenous reserves and fully funds them.

Are there ways for people who want to learn English, French and an indigenous language to do so? It's a tough question and probably isn't asked very often. Most of the time, it's about the duality of French and English in Canada, but there are still other peoples across the country.

[Guylaine F. Roy]

I would first like to clarify my answer to your first question.

In the action plan, scholarships for anglophone students enrolled in post-secondary programs in French are endowed with $12.6 million over four years. It's a new program to help anglophone students enrolled in post-secondary programs who want to learn French. That's just a clarification in response to your first question.

With regard to your question about support for indigenous languages, I'm sure you're well aware of the introduction of Minister Rodriguez's bill. Since these are issues related rather to the learning of indigenous languages, this is more of a matter for Mr. Rodriguez.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Actually, I wanted to know if there are any programs for learning French. I understand that indigenous schools on reserves don't really offer music or visual arts classes. When there do, they are often given in a gym. I know that funding for these courses has been increased, but I wonder if it would be beneficial for an indigenous person out west to also have the opportunity to learn one of the two official languages, whether it is English, although that's probably already done, but also French.

In my case, it has allowed me to talk more with francophones from Quebec and has enriched my culture. It has been very beneficial in my life and even in my work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Ouellette.

I have to give the floor to someone else.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I know, I'm sorry. These are open-ended questions, and I like that.