Official Languages Committee on April 4th, 2019

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

We have heard a lot of testimony and seen a lot of documents. Each of us is beginning to have an idea of the form that the modernized act could take.

So I have one burning question. From all you have heard in those two forums that you have already taken part in or the comments that have been sent to you online on the issue, what stands out most?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Different things. As francophones—I feel that everyone here will feel involved—for sure we have the responsibility to call on our anglophone colleagues and our official languages allies and convince them to take an interest in the modernization of the Official Languages Act. That is certainly a constant challenge, but I feel that we are able to meet it. We are seeing the extent to which anglophones are becoming interested in sending their children to French immersion schools. We have a lot of allies. That said, the 9 million francophones in the country, 10 million if you include francophones and francophiles, must always be looking for allies and sometimes also be mounting a challenge when certain linguistic tensions arise.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

That Is what you heard in the first two forums.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Yes, that is what I heard.

I also heard a lot about the importance of addressing the powers of the Commissioner, for example, the importance of the Legal Challenges Program, or the way in which to develop language clauses that would basically encourage compliance in federal transfers to the provinces and territories, as well as official language obligations. That is why the discussions are continuing. We also heard a lot about the importance of Radio-Canada. I feel that we are having good conversations and that the issue is raising a lot of interest.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

The first thing you alluded to was the presence of the majority community at those consultation forums. On Tuesday, we heard from Jack Jedwab. He is an incredible, dynamic guy, who made me realize something I had not noticed before, though it is as plain as the nose on my face. In terms of modernizing the act, he said that, when the subject was minority rights, the only people at the table were those directly involved, the minority.

Did you get the pulse of that majority in the forum you had in Moncton, for example? Were there members of the majority anglophone community who wanted to speak?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

There are always good organizations. I think that today we have here a representative of Canadian Parents for French, which promotes French immersion and, by extension, bilingualism among young people. That's one thing.

In addition, I think that we need to involve our provincial and territorial counterparts to ensure that we have some representatives.

I also think that it's good that all Quebeckers believe in the importance of official languages.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I'll repeat the purpose of my question.

In New Brunswick, we're not familiar with the QCGN, because francophones constitute the minority. In addition to anglophones in minority communities in Quebec and francophones outside Quebec, how can we ensure that the majority communities on the other side will be represented at the table at the next forums to share their views and have their voices heard?

I'm referring to what Mr. Jedwab said. It really sparked my interest. It's true that these groups aren't included in our forums.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

You've raised a very good point. I think that the government, the public and all the parties share this responsibility. We must reaffirm the importance of our two official languages, bilingualism, and the fact that this matter is part of our identity and history. We must never take anything for granted. We ensure our country's social cohesion by respecting our two official languages, minority rights and the reconciliation process with indigenous people. I call this a three-legged stool. These three things must always work together. This makes our country what it is and ensures success.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Arseneault.

We'll proceed with a quick round of questions. Mr. Clarke will have three minutes, Mr. Rioux will have two minutes and Ms. Boucher will have two minutes.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

No, I'll give my speaking time to Mr. Clarke.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

That's fine.

Mr. Clarke, you have the floor.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Minister Joly, I was a little surprised by your response to Mr. Choquette. You said that you hoped the commissioner would have a generous interpretation. However, you and your Prime Minister were the ones who chose the person and submitted his name for the position.

Didn't you first determine the person's approach to official languages? How can you hope for something from an individual, when you were the one who chose that person? That seems very strange. I don't understand.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I don't want to correct you, Mr. Clarke, but the government doesn't choose the Commissioner of Official Languages. Parliament chooses the Commissioner of Official Languages, because the commissioner is an agent of Parliament.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Yes, but you submitted the suggestion.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

That's the first thing.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

You didn't submit three suggestions. You submitted one suggestion, Minister Joly.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I just want to say that, at the time, I asked you the question, and you had the right to ask the candidate questions. That's the first thing.

Second, since the commissioner is an agent of Parliament, I can only express wishes. I can't have coercive powers over the commissioner. I must respect the commissioner's independence, and I encourage the commissioner to have a broad interpretation.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That's fine, thank you.

I have two minutes left.

I may be wrong, but I think that I'm right. Across Canada, people have mainly told me that, while they're pleased with your measures, they find that you lack the leadership to ensure that Part VI of the act is applied in all government agencies.

When he met with us on Tuesday, the commissioner said that federal agencies were following his recommendations in 80% of cases. That's fine. However, in 20% of cases, the agencies aren't following the recommendations or are struggling to follow them. If it were 5%, I could understand. It would almost be by default. However, 20% is significant.

Why did the National Energy Board publish a report in English only? The Canada Infrastructure Bank and Public Services and Procurement Canada websites display calls for tenders that are still riddled with mistakes in French. Why are 20% of federal agencies unable to follow the recommendations? Minister Joly, we don't expect you to be offended by the shortcomings, but to act. You don't seem to be taking action.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I just want to tell you that the people we've met with across the country are very happy with our reinvestments. It goes without saying. After 10 years of the Harper government, we've been able to ease a great deal of the anxiety in the country regarding the underfunding and importance of official languages.

Of course, the shortcomings that you mentioned are frustrating and unacceptable. I'll keep not only criticizing them, but correcting them. In all cases, the agencies have committed to correcting them.

I think that this issue is part of a much broader discussion on how to strengthen the powers set out in the Official Languages Act. The modernization of the act is essential given the need to determine whether we should strengthen the powers of the commissioner or whether we should have institutions that embody the official languages.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

In the committee, we mostly say that the main issue, other than the act, is the lack of political will.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Ultimately, I think that the modernization is important.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The issue is the lack of political will. The issue is your place in cabinet. Do you say these things in cabinet? Do you criticize your colleagues for these shortcomings? The 20% rate is unacceptable. A 5% rate would be understandable, by default. However, a 20% rate clearly indicates an issue.

As I told you, people are generally happy with your investments. It's the continuation of the story of the past 20 years. All action plans increase investments. However, people are telling me about your lack of leadership, Minister Joly. That's the serious issue right now. That's why the act must be strengthened. The current Minister of Official Languages in the government doesn't show leadership. If you're doing so, your colleagues aren't listening to you.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Clarke, you've expressed the need for leadership. Do you think that you're showing leadership with regard to your colleagues?

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Of course.