Evidence of meeting #27 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here with us today, Mrs. Groulx.
As New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in Canada, I want to congratulate you. You are definitely an example to us all.
If I correctly understood, the funding you received under the second roadmap was 60% less than under the first one.
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
That is correct.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Apart from federal government budget reductions, do you know why that cut was imposed on you? I have not heard that other Canadian provinces had cuts of that size.
Do you think you have been penalized in any particular way?
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
No. I think we were coddled under the first roadmap: we were allocated $10 million. However, the fact remains that 60% is enormous. Funding for the settlement centres dropped from $2 million to $1 million a year.
Under the first roadmap, the province allocated funding to the settlement centres, and that money was used for recruitment. Then we submitted the invoices to the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, which reimbursed us for those amounts
Under the second roadmap, $4 million was allocated directly to the settlement centres, not to the province. The settlement centres file the applications themselves, and the IRCC allocates the funding directly to them based on very stringent criteria. When the province managed the funding, we had more flexibility, and the criteria respecting the nature of the funded projects were broader.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
I see.
Do you think the difference in funding between the first and second roadmaps has had a very negative impact? When governments decide to implement programs and to allocate funding to them, they do not necessarily do so permanently. Adjustments are made. The Liberals will make some too one day or another. They cannot just give money away for the simple pleasure of giving.
In short, do you think the difference in funding between the first and second roadmaps has had a very negative impact?
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
The impact has mainly been felt in the settlement centres. As I mentioned earlier, the centres in rural areas have been penalized the most. They only receive provincial funding now. We are facing financial challenges, like many provincial governments. We have less funding to allocate to them.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
However, that is a choice that you, the province or ACOA in your case, must make, is it not? It is you who decide where the money will go within the province.
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
We have a sum of money and it is based on criteria.
Conservative
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
So a proposal is made once a year based on criteria.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Are you telling me that the criteria the federal government establishes for distributing the money run counter to what the regions want?
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
Yes, and I am going to explain to you how it works.
Our centres in the francophone rural areas provide services to clients that IRCC feels are not real clients.
As Mrs. Lanthier previously mentioned, we consider international students a potentially infinite source of immigrants—
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
They are a source of clients.
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
Yes, they are a source of clients. The same is true of temporary workers. Temporary workers and international students cannot use the services that IRCC provides. In the province, we say that they are potential clients and that it is important to take care of them. In short, we fund the centres so they will take care of those clients.
Community colleges and the University of New Brunswick have campuses in rural areas where many international students live. They use the services at those centres that are not funded by IRCC given that there are not as many permanent residents as in the bigger centres.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
In fact, you are telling me that we are spending fortunes around the world recruiting students and people to come and settle in Canada. However, when those people are in New Brunswick, they are told they are ineligible for the programs we put in place because they are not real francophones or New Brunswickers. I do not really know what to call them.
Who determines the criteria?
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
In fact, the services funded by IRCC are intended only for permanent residents. International students and temporary workers are not immigrants, but they are here on Canadian soil.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
You are required to refuse to provide them with services when they request them.
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
Some centres do it and see them all the same. It depends on their workload. However, we have centres where most of the clientele consists of international students and qualified temporary workers. In short, the province funds those centres to support the services that are provided.
Ultimately, our goal is to keep them and to ensure they become permanent residents.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
We also make an international effort to recruit them.
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
I know.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
However, when they arrive here, we do not want to provide them with services. Something seems a bit contradictory there.
I imagine there are real minority situations in certain places in New Brunswick. Compared to other provinces, for example, do you have a lot of places or communities that you feel are really in a francophone minority situation?
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
It is a bit unusual because New Brunswick is officially bilingual.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
The province is officially bilingual.
I live near Rivière-du-Loup. So I am near New Brunswick, and there are nevertheless places in New Brunswick where English is used much more predominantly than French.
Francophone Initiatives Team Leader, New Brunswick Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour
It is definitely more anglophone as you head to the south of the province, but many francophones live in those communities. However, the francophone communities are mainly in the northern part of the province. These are more rural areas than those where the anglophone communities are.
Liberal
