Official Languages Committee on Oct. 20th, 2016

[The Clerk]

It is about 7 a.m. there.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

It’s early for them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

We might just go up there, but not today.

While we are waiting, I want to tell our friends watching from other countries that, in a few minutes, we will be in communication with the Yukon, which is on the other side of Canada. There is a major time difference between there and here. It is early in the morning for our friends in the Yukon, very early, in fact.

[The Clerk]

The difference is three hours.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

So it is 7 a.m. in the Yukon. The people there are going to contribute to our work by testifying by videoconference.

Can you hear us in the Yukon?

[Isabelle Salesse, Executive Director, Association franco-yukonnaise]

Yes, we hear you loud and clear. Do you hear us?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

We hear you loud and clear too.

Thank you for getting up early this morning to join us. We know that it is much earlier where you are.

We are continuing our study on the roadmap and immigration in francophone minority communities. We are going to listen to your presentation for six or seven minutes. After that, we will move into a period when committee members will ask questions and make comments.

In the first part, you will be telling us about the government's next roadmap, or action plan. Thereafter, we will hear what you have to say about immigration and what it means for the Francophone community in the Yukon.

Welcome, Mr. Nolet, Mrs. Salesse. Without further delay, I open the floor to you.

[Isabelle Salesse]

Thank you very much, Mr. Paradis.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, first, we thank you for inviting the Association franco-yukonnaise today to talk to you about the roadmap and about francophone immigration.

I will start by talking about our organization. The Association franco-yukonnaise, or AFY, is the official voice of francophones in the Yukon and a pillar in the development of the Franco-Yukon community. Our mandate is to improve the quality of life in French for French-speaking Yukoners. We provide services in a number of areas, including arts and culture, health, education, economic development and, of course, immigration. Our association has been in existence since 1982. During the celebrations of the 150th anniversary of Confederation, we will be celebrating our 35th birthday.

In order for you to get to know us better, one other point may interest you. Given the size of our community and the fact that it is geographically concentrated in Whitehorse, we preferred to bring most of the services under the same roof instead of creating a number of organizations. So we have adopted a one-stop model that allows for better integration and greater efficiency in our services as well as giving us the benefit of the economies of scale.

All the AFY’s services use the same resources in accounting, information technology, communications and reception. We have therefore made best use of the money that we invest in projects that are useful for our community.

Clearly, this approach also works to the advantage of the clients who come to our offices. For example, most immigrants take advantage of our job search services. With this model, those immigrants also receive settlement services and employment assistance services from the same person under the same roof. They can therefore use all our services without having to leave the building.

Let me now turn to another point. I do not know if you are aware, but the French-speaking Yukon is expanding, both in numbers and in size. The francophone school and daycare are short on space. The French immersion schools cannot meet the demand. Furthermore, the Yukon is ranked third among provinces and territories in terms of bilingualism. With a bilingualism rate of 13%, we are third after Quebec and New Brunswick, which is no small achievement.

The AFY is also a member of a number of national organizations, such as the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, whose representatives you met yesterday, I believe, and the Réseau de développement économique et d’employabilité, or RDÉE Canada. Through those national networks, we can provide our community with access to a number of programs and initiatives.

Let me now move directly to the roadmap. I call it “the roadmap” but I am actually going to be talking about an official languages action plan. It is clear that the roadmap that will end in 2018 responds but poorly to the needs of francophone minority communities like the franco-Yukon community. That is why we are insisting on the importance of the future official languages plan.

It must give priority to supporting the development and the vitality of francophone minority communities. This is essential. Our communities’ needs in terms of health and education must be recognized. For us, when we talk about education, we mean lifelong education. It starts in early childhood and goes through adulthood to the old age. For us, it means literacy, skills, community economic development, culture and identity, and the media. It must include services to French-speaking seniors, young people and immigrants.

For several years, we have been advocating for a new service for seniors. This population is growing. So it is important not to neglect this aspect of our francophone minority communities.

The government can find support in the recent consultations that were held right across Canada, but also in some reports from the Commissioner of Official Languages, specifically one of the most recent about early childhood. This report insists on how crucially important it is for our communities in order to ensure linguistic continuity; it adds that we must have access to daycare and preschool services in French in our communities. First, we are talking about services of a quality equal to those available to the majority. Early childhood is where our survival begins.

One single approach is not possible if we wish to reach genuine equality. We cannot look at a wall-to-wall approach and say that the situation is the same in Prince Edward Island as it is in the Yukon. It is very different. As you know, Ontario has the largest critical mass of francophones but that does not mean that Ontario solutions can be applied to the Yukon. Even with francophones representing 4.8% of the community, the figures are very small. Sometimes criteria are imposed that are extremely difficult for us to meet.

There is one other thing that we feel is extremely important. All federal departments must be included in the plan and all must fulfill their obligations in terms of official languages. We must keep in mind that Canadian Heritage is not the only department responsible for implementing official languages measures. Who is to ensure that the money identified for OLMCs is spent for and by OLMCs? How do we avoid the roadmap’s errors in that respect?

Should we identify a federal body to coordinate a new plan with genuine, effective accountability mechanisms, not only for the communities but also for all of the departments involved? The action plan must be one of the mechanisms that support the full implementation of the Official Languages Act, not a little Band-Aid to put on little boo-boos. We must avoid having to start again in two years, only to find that we are at the same level.

It goes without saying that a substantial increase in budgets is required. If we really want to work towards a strong and bilingual Canada, we must make corresponding investments in our communities. Project financing has its interest, but it is insufficient for developing OLMCs. Multi-year funding is required and it must include a basic core amount in order to allow organizations like the AFY to hire qualified and committed people so that we are able to aim for long-term results.

We would also like to stress the importance of not confusing bilingualism with the constitutional right to live in the official language of one’s choice. We must distinguish between the importance of preserving all the languages in Canada—the importance of one’s personal choice to speak one, two or three languages—and the federal responsibility for linguistic duality, which implies that Canadians have the right to be unilingual anglophone or unilingual francophone all across Canada and to have access to services in the language of their choice.

To bring this matter to a close, I also invite you to consult a bilingual position statement developed by the AFY in September 2016, entitled Taking action for a vibrant and dynamic Yukon Francophone Community. Can you see it on the screen? The document describes the concrete actions that each level of government must take to support our community. In the document that we sent you, we put the address of our website so that you can access and download this document.

That is what I had to say about the roadmap. I believe that I kept to the time I was given.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mrs. Salesse.

[Isabelle Salesse]

If you have questions, we are ready to answer them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

We are going to start the time for questions and comments.

We'll start with John Nater, for three minutes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for taking part in our work.

Mrs. Salesse, you mentioned that there are not enough places in the bilingual and francophone schools to meet the demand. You would like the next roadmap to contain more support for education. How could the roadmap improve your situation? What resources do you need in order to improve the situation you are currently dealing with? Can you give some examples?

[Isabelle Salesse]

The roadmap contains a number of agreements that have to do with those matters, specifically the bilateral education agreement. Since at least 2003, the amounts available have been identical. Every four years, we go back to the bargaining table. In fact, there is no bargaining table. Instead, we are told the amount that we will be getting. The amount is the same as for the previous year. We are not asked to submit a plan that matches the amount. We are not asked to submit a plan that matches our needs in an attempt to fund them.

We are well aware that the budget envelope is not limitless and that money does not grow on trees. However, there must also be an awareness of the fact that our communities need financial support for their development and that educational services in French need additional support in order to ensure true equality. Just like anglophone schools, we also need the services of psychologists, guidance counsellors, and, in a word, the same services that majority schools have. Just because we are fewer in numbers does not mean that we do not need the same services.

So it is important to have funding that matches our needs. In recent years, the opposite seems to be happening, meaning that we have to try to satisfy the government's criteria. In terms of our needs, we have to make choices.

In terms of space, you need to know that the francophone school in the Yukon was built for a maximum of 190 to 200 students from kindergarten to grade 12. Today, we have more than 240 students. The secondary level is disappearing because there is not enough space. Students are quitting because they are in portable classrooms or they are sharing space with four-year-old kindergarten kids. It is a real problem for our community.

At the moment, the school board is negotiating with the territorial government and Canadian Heritage to build a community high school. The negotiations are going well. We hope that construction will begin in 2019, but in the meantime, we still need services. In addition, when that school is built, services will remain important for our students.

I don't know whether I have answered your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mrs. Salesse.

Your turn, Mr. Massé.

[Rémi Massé, Liberal, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for helping the committee with its work, Mr. Nolet and Mrs. Salesse. It is very much appreciated. This is the first opportunity I have had to sit on this committee. I find what you said this morning to be particularly interesting.

One thing in particular caught my attention. I am talking about the impressive figures that you gave us about the number of francophones and the increase in the number of francophones in your territory. I would like to know what you did to obtain that kind of a positive outcome in the Yukon.

[Isabelle Salesse]

We are often asked that question, whether we have some kind of magic formula that explains why francophones are motivated to come here. There are a number of reasons for it. We like to think that our organization, the Association franco-yukonnaise, has something to do with it.

We also have a French-language school and a French-language daycare. We try to provide high-quality services, but the Yukon itself attracts people. A lot of people come to the Yukon for its wide open spaces, for a change in their lives, or for a number of other reasons.

In recent years, more and more families have come to the Yukon to settle. The young couples settling in the Yukon have children. They stay here because we can provide them with access to a daycare, a school and to other services in French. It all encourages those who come here to stay.

We are seeing a second generation in the school. Those who graduated from the École Émilie-Tremblay, in Whitehorse, now have children themselves and those children are now in grades 2 or 3. That is very encouraging for us.

Our impression is that francophones stay in the Yukon whereas once, they were just passing through. People came, had their minds blown, and went home again. We are seeing more and more people settling here permanently. We work hard to establish services with the help of the territorial government. An election campaign is going on at the moment, but up to now, the government has shown itself to be open to working with us to increase French-language services.

Of course, there are still major challenges in health care and education in French. As I said, the Garderie du petit cheval blanc is short of space. The waiting list contains the names of a number of French-speaking students. That is a problem for us because, if we do not reach those students immediately, right from early childhood, there is a danger that we will lose them. There is a much greater chance that they will go over to the anglophone side and do all their studies in English.

In my opinion, one of the main reasons is that people come to the Yukon for the Yukon. Once they are here, they realize that they can live a lot of their lives in French. A lot of people who come to visit us even say that the number of francophones, or people who speak French, is incredible. If you go to the grocery store, you will be served in French. If you go to the restaurant, a waitress will serve you in French. Service in the language is sometimes beyond what you find in Ottawa. It really is quite impressive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much.

[Isabelle Salesse]

French immersion is also extremely popular.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Salesse.

Mr. Choquette, you have the floor.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mrs. Salesse and Mr. Nolet. I am very glad to hear from you.

Let me tell you about immigration and the return of Mobilité francophone. Have you started talking to your business leaders and employers about the return of Mobilité francophone so that they can use it? Have you started using the program?

How is economic development on that front? You are saying that immigration is going well. When people arrive, is the integration into the workplace smooth? I wanted to hear what you have to say on those issues.

There is also express entry. I was told that there is no francophone lens for express entry yet. How is that working out in the Yukon? What are your needs?

[Frédéric Nolet, Director, Economic Development, Association franco-yukonnaise]

Thank you for the question.

I would not say that francophone immigration is going well in the Yukon because we have a lot of needs in that area. We must do a lot of promotion because, unlike other parts of the country, people do not necessarily know where the Yukon is, period.

The Mobilité francophone is an excellent tool. We were pleased to see that such a program is back. We have started talking about it to employers here. In addition, we are returning to Destination Canada this year for the first time since 2011.

The response of our employers is that this is very relevant. It will work especially, for example, for people with permits for the Canada-France Working Holiday Program who already have jobs. They will be able to extend their stay.

That said, how can that type of immigration become permanent? There are a number of francophones currently in the Yukon who want to stay there. How can we ensure that they do not need to keep taking steps? That is our biggest obstacle right now. How do we help those people transition from temporary status to permanent status?

Let me give you a specific example. I have obtained permission to discuss the case.

Chrystelle Houdry comes from France. She came here with a working holiday permit in 2008. She returned in 2013, just after the francophone significant benefit program was eliminated. Since then, she went back to school to obtain a permit. Her son went to the Garderie du petit cheval blanc and now attends École Émilie-Tremblay. Chrystelle now sits on the AFY’s board of directors. Their dream is to have a dog sled business here in the Yukon, but there is no program to help them. We know of no way for them to obtain a more permanent status in Canada. For us it is important to retain people like that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Nolet.

We will now move to the second part on francophone immigration. Mrs. Salesse, go ahead for about six minutes.

[Isabelle Salesse]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let’s talk about francophone immigration. For five years, from 2005 to 2010, the AFY provided settlement services in French and English to the people of the Yukon.

In 2010, we lost the contract to an anglophone organization that had no obligation to provide services in French and still does not. Since 2010, the AFY has encountered much reluctance from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, whose acronym used to be CIC.

As for the legitimacy of the need for services in French for francophone immigrants in the Yukon, we have had to fight for two years to obtain some minimal funding to provide support to francophone immigrants. That funding did not allow us to hire a full-time person.

Between 2012 and 2015, we calculated that, for the same work as the AFY was doing, two francophone organizations in the Northwest Territories received four times more funding. That is legitimate and enables francophone organizations in the Northwest Territories to provide quality services. We clearly don’t think it’s a bad thing that they had so much money. However, we don’t understand why there is such a discrepancy between the Yukon and the Northwest Territories.

Let us stress that, for welcoming francophone immigrants in minority communities, it is essential that the service be provided by the francophone community. The “by” and “for” are especially important in francophone immigration if our goal is to integrate immigrants into our community. It's sort of the same thing as early childhood. If we do not reach out to them right upon arrival, we will definitely lose them. An anglophone organization will not direct francophones to the francophone community.

We have tried to do as much as possible with the resources available, but staff retention is very difficult when you just have a part-time position to offer. It is worrisome to see that we are still forced to convince the Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada officials in our region of the need to support francophone immigration in the Yukon.

Actually, it's always the same question of the chicken or the egg. The officials say that the funding depends on the number of eligible immigrants using our services. However, we believe that it's impossible to reach those numbers without adequate funding and services—particularly promotion and recruitment.

We have been going around in circles for a number of years, especially because few potential immigrants have heard of the Yukon. If they have heard of it, they sometimes think that we live in igloos and that our streets are haunted by polar bears.

However, our model makes it possible to have the entire continuum of services for immigrants, including promotion, recruitment and reception or social, cultural and economic integration.

We believe we have some momentum because, as Mr. Nolet mentioned, we are taking part in Destination Canada for the first time since 2011 with funding from the Yukon government. Let's also note once again that we had to work very hard to convince the authorities to support us as a result of the cuts at CIC from a few years ago; it is no longer helping the provinces and territories to fund Destination Canada.

The target of 4.4% is the department's target, but it is essential that it be reached. We feel that we can be a good partner to help achieve this target and to increase the number of francophone immigrants in the Yukon. As I said earlier, the AFY has recently published the document entitled Taking action for a vibrant and dynamic Yukon Francophone Community. This document includes requests from the Franco-Yukon community to the federal and territorial governments as well as to the City of Whitehorse.

With respect to immigration, the AFY made three specific requests. The first is to implement a strategy to achieve the 4.4% francophone immigration target set for the Yukon, and to include all immigration continuum components (recruitment, reception, integration and retention). That target is very important. Yet without a strategy and action plan, it will never be achieved. From January to September 2015, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada programs have admitted no francophone immigrants to the Yukon. That has to change.

Another request from our document is to fund the AFY so that it can offer full-time French-language services for francophone immigrants to the Yukon. As mentioned earlier, resources are still essential to accomplish the work. The only recruiting tools that we currently have are a web page and a Facebook page. We'll still be able to participate in Destination Canada this year thanks to funding from the Yukon government.

In addition, the IRCC criteria for eligible clients are very restrictive. Many people come to our offices without being eligible clients. We do our best to help them without violating the terms of our agreements, but they do not count in the results and in the calculation of the workload of our employees.

Furthermore, we request that the French test required to obtain permanent residency be available in the Yukon, at the same cost as the English test. We think the current situation makes no sense. Not only is the French test more expensive than the English one, but it is not even available in the Yukon. Someone who needs to take it must go to either Vancouver or Montreal. So you need to add the cost of the plane ticket and accommodation there.

Clearly, the Yukon is not for everyone, but even so, there are a number of francophone immigrants there. They come with temporary permits or working holiday permits. They want to stay, but finding ways to do so is very complicated for them. The IRCC funding should allow recruitment and immigrant service organizations to serve anyone potentially interested in becoming permanent residents, including international students.

Finally, in closing, let me reiterate that, in order to achieve the target identified by the government, it is essential that we give ourselves tangible tools to do so. This must not be another empty promise. The IRCC must consider the different realities of the provinces and territories. An important and significant consideration is that we should not view immigration in silos. We need to encourage co-operation among all those working toward the reception and integration of francophone immigrants.

Once again, thank you for inviting us. We are ready to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Salesse.

We will go around the table and each committee member will have about two minutes. We'll start with Mr. Généreux, followed by Mr. Vandal and Mr. Choquette.

Mr. Généreux, the floor is yours.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the two witnesses for their remarks.

Mrs. Salesse, you are saying that services provided by the community would be a winning formula rather than having the government look after them. We have heard that on a number of occasions since the beginning of our meetings. We were told that the money should be given to the communities so that they organize themselves.

If you had additional funding, what would you do that you are not doing now?