Evidence of meeting #58 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was catsa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Do you mean about official languages?
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
It would be to the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat.
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
I would not be able to answer that question, unfortunately. I do not know.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
I would like to ask you another question.
You mentioned that they do not consult official-language minority communities. What is your recommendation to tackle this problem?
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
There must be regular contacts with community groups in order to know their needs. We believe that establishing these relationships could also help these groups recruit bilingual employees, because these associations are part of the communities. They could give their opinion on how to find bilingual employees.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
All right.
Do you believe that CATSA will follow up?
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Yes, I am optimistic that that will happen.
As I was saying a bit earlier, this organization is fairly recent. During the audit, its representatives were very receptive and they were very cooperative. I am confident that they will implement all of the recommendations. We drafted our recommendations so that they fit together with each other. I am convinced that if these recommendations are implemented, the services will be greatly improved.
Last week, I left from Ottawa to go to Edmonton. CATSA provided me with impeccable service. This was the first time I saw that. I experienced active offer and service in French at all the screening points.
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
They had my photo in Ottawa!
They did not recognize me in Toronto, however.
Liberal
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It seems that there really is a recurrent problem in air transport. Mr. Fraser, the previous commissioner, did a special report on Air Canada. Now there is this study on the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, or CATSA. According to the picture you are painting today and from what I can see, there seems to be a regression in service offer in both official languages.
The newspaper La Presse has revealed certain facts about bilingual employees at screening points. Since 2010, there has been a decrease in bilingual employees at practically all airports in the country. For example, they went from 8 to 6 bilingual employees in Toronto, and from 13 to 11 in Vancouver. Even in Montréal, the staff went from 99 to 94 bilingual employees. So there seems to be a problem and the situation is starting to get out of control. At Air Canada, there are also problems that can be explained in a number of ways.
How would you describe access to services in both official languages in air transport? There seems to be a problem in this area.
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
There is certainly a problem and it seems that the challenges are almost the same. We often hear that it is difficult, in particular, to recruit bilingual people in certain regions. However, recruiting bilingual people is not the only solution. We can also train personnel.
What we observe is that the vocabulary of the employees who hold these positions is rather limited and that the questions they ask are rather simple. Their employer could very well train them to make an active offer and at the very least to provide a minimal service. There are indeed recruitment problems, but it is also possible to offer training.
This seems to be a question of allocation of positions. As we said, CATSA has established that it was sufficient to have one bilingual person for every two counters, but this decision was not based on any fact or statistical data. There must be an analysis of the situation and this must be planned. The number of flight attendants on Air Canada flights must be planned. If two flight attendants are assigned to a flight and one is bilingual and the other monolingual, half of the passengers will receive service in both languages and the other half will not. On the other hand, if two bilingual attendants are assigned to the flight, all passengers will have service in both languages.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Let us go back to the meeting you had with the CATSA managers.
In two recommendations, you say that you disagree with the decisions of this association with regard to the linguistic identification of the positions of directors and general managers as well as official languages standards under the Contract Compliance Program.
How is it that CATSA did not listen to you about these two recommendations? Do you meet with CATSA to encourage it to better understand these two recommendations you presented?
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
When CATSA committed to implement 13 of the 15 recommendations, it was under the former president. Since then, the new president has been appointed. I met with him with my team and I had the impression that he was going to review this and that he was really committed to implementing all of the recommendations. We will certainly follow up in 18 to 24 months to see if this has been done.
CATSA's reservations were not so significant. You spoke just now about the difference and the challenges. When there is strong leadership at the head of an organization, this greatly supports the establishment of a culture of service excellence. I am optimistic that with the current leadership, CATSA will see the importance of each of the recommendations and will implement them.
Recommendation 8 asks that each region be given a bit of latitude to implement the bonus program. We have had discussions on this topic, and I think CATSA understood the importance of also ensuring consistency in this regard. I am optimistic that CATSA will implement this.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
You said earlier that recruitment of bilingual people is not always easy and that there could be more training. When the Air Canada people came here, they told us that they would need a little more support from the federal government. Is it the same thing for CATSA? Are they asking for a little more support from the Cabinet to create a list of bilingual employees and potentially bilingual employees or to provide language training?
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
No, the people from CATSA did not raise these questions. I think CATSA accepted the recommendation about consultation of official-language communities, within which there could be a pool of potential employees. I saw the comment from Air Canada and this solution seems complicated to me. Perhaps the question should be put to the Public Service Commission. I imagine that they are the ones who would be responsible for creating this type of bank of employees.
In my opinion, the skills these organizations require of their employees are different. It is good to have a bank of bilingual employees, but I think that requiring a multitude of different skills would be difficult to manage.
Liberal
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
I thank the four of you for being here today and telling us about two extremely important subjects for our committee. I am going to focus on CATSA.
For a year, I have been hearing a lot about the deficiencies of the subcontractors of Air Canada and CATSA in terms of services in both official languages—and Mr. Choquette spoke about it also. This is troubling to me.
Are the guidelines rigorous enough to ensure that the suppliers chosen have the same obligations concerning services in both official languages? Is there a deficiency in this regard?
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Section 25 of the Official Languages Act is clear on this point: even if services are subcontracted by a federal institution, the latter remains responsible for these services. As far as we are concerned, CATSA is responsible for providing services in both official languages. It is up to them to implement the services.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
I quite agree, madam, but my question is more specific.
In your opinion, are the guidelines rigorous enough to ensure that subcontractors provide services in both official languages?
Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
The contracts that these organizations enter into with subcontractors are supposed to contain language clauses. As far as knowing whether these clauses are clear enough, the question should go to the organizations in question. Does CATSA impose penalties? Does it refuse to grant bonuses if its subcontractors do not provide the required services? Could this be strengthened? Some of you would very likely say yes.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
We should really examine this.
Let us now talk about recommendation 3. When senior management is not bilingual or does not include a certain percentage of people who can get along well in both languages, what happens? This is a question of leadership.
