Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Samson and Mr. Arseneault said earlier that we can't really make an association between donating to a political party and a nomination, or an affiliation, whatever it may be. I will look through the telescope in the other direction. For the record, I would like you to answer the question I will put to you.
If I have understood you correctly, once we are in power again—inevitably, that will happen some day, as history has taught us that the government party does change from time to time—when the Conservative Party is back in power, it could appoint to positions as important in Parliament as Auditor General or Commissioner of Official Languages people who are connected in some way to the Conservative Party without the opposition—you or NDP members—seeing any issues with it. That is my first question, and I would really like to get an open-microphone answer.
If I understand correctly, here is what you explained to us earlier. You told us that making a small donation was not a big deal and that, regardless of the amount, it was not important because there was no cause and effect. However, we feel that a human being's involvement will depend on their personal beliefs, which lead to them decide to give to a political party. They choose a party that represents their opinions or represent the way they live or want to live, the way they want society to be built. That is why they donate to the party in question.
As we have been saying since the beginning, we are not really questioning Ms. Meilleur's qualifications, but I still have a question. Mr. Arseneault, this is for you in particular.
Michel Doucet, a lawyer who specializes in language rights you probably know very well, was interviewed by a journalist, Nicholas Steinbach. Mr. Doucet told him that he participated in the process, but that he unfortunately did not make the 10-candidate short list. If I understood what Ms. Joly told us, she interviewed the 10 candidates from the short list. If I misunderstood, you will forgive me, but that is my understanding. Inevitably, if Ms. Joly conducted the last interview, as she said, and she selected the best candidate, there was not only one interview; she had to conduct all 10 interviews. Unfortunately, Mr. Doucet did not make the short list. According to him, one of the reasons he may not have made the short list is that he was told, very clearly, that if he was not talking to high-ranking members of the Prime Minister's office or, in any case, of the Liberal Party, he had no chance of getting the position. He was apparently told that this is not how things work.
Mr. Samson and Mr. Arseneault, based on what you said earlier, when the Conservatives take power again, they will be able to tell you, once you are part of the opposition, that this is not how things work and that they don't care, that it does not matter. Your giving money to our party is not important.
The sought accountability and independence.... I will be very honest in saying that I believe that you are essentially very honest people—all five of you before me. I should say all six of you, taking Mr. Casey into account. I sincerely believe from the bottom of my heart that you are very honest people. That is why I am sure that you are inevitably uncomfortable with what is happening. If you are not uncomfortable, my view of who you are may be completely wrong. Sincerely, if I think about what we have gone through over the past year and a half in the committee, you have shown openness since the outset.
You are still showing openness today. As Mr. Choquette just said, our public discussion of this issue today shows openness. Sincerely, I tip my hat to you. I'm even surprised that this is happening and that we are discussing it. I really appreciate it.
However, I am sure that you are uncomfortable and that you are forced to defend something that is indefensible.
Over the past year and a half, we have experienced true independence in this committee. As Darrell Samson pointed out earlier, the committee could almost be referred to as apolitical. That is actually one of this committee's major strengths.
However, you are preparing to appoint someone who, normally, should have had that level of independence or stayed above the fray. If I was in Ms. Meilleur's shoes, following the committee meeting she attended and everything that is being said in the media, I would have already recused myself. I would retire and would probably serve Canadian society in another way, even though I could make $315,000 a year over the next seven years. Yes, that is a lot of money, and I can understand that it may be very attractive, but with her political career, I don't think she will really be upset if she does not earn that money in her retirement.
That said, I think the government is deliberately choosing to appoint someone close to it, even though that shouldn't normally be done. The government is doing it deliberately. Frankly, that is unfortunate.
Yesterday, when Ms. Joly told us, in the House, that Ms. Meilleur had not talked about the position with Mr. Butts or Ms. Telford, I felt that I was being taken for a fool. I felt that Ms. Joly was taking all the members of the House of Commons for fools. I cannot believe that Ms. Joly believes that. Either she is extremely naive, or she was told to say that. She was forced to say in the House of Commons that the conversations Ms. Meilleur had with Mr. Butts and Ms. Telford had nothing to do with the appointment process.
I want to remind you that Ms. Meilleur wanted to become a senator, and she said so herself. I don't think anyone can question that. She said very sincerely and frankly that her dream was to become a senator, but that the Prime Minister said that it was out of the question because he did not want any former politicians in the Senate, but rather independent people. That's great.
Something like that would inevitably come up during the conversation, regardless of at what point in the process the meeting took place. We agree on the fact that they are friends and that they had worked together. I have friends with whom I have worked in the past, and when I talk to them, I talk about all sorts of things, even within the same sentence. That discussion took place with Mr. Butts or Ms. Telford; that is inevitable. It is humanly impossible to believe that it has not taken place. I don't know whether Ms. Joly will continue to take us for fools in the House of Commons.
There are two possibilities: either she lied to us or Ms. Meilleur lied to us. It's either one or the other. I think that what is happening is really unfortunate. Let's go back three, four or five months. We all knew that Mr. Fraser was at the end of his term and that someone would inevitably have to replace him. Today, we are forced to come down on you.
Let's think about it properly, let's be honest and independent, as Ms. Joly told us yesterday. If you want, we can go in camera. I have no objection to that. I think that we have all said what we had to say. We can go in camera to finish the conversation, if you want, but I honestly wouldn't believe you if you told me that, deep down, you were not against this decision.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.