Official Languages Committee on Oct. 13th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Généreux, as I understand it, the routine motion presented is the same as the one we adopted last February. It proposes six minutes per party for the first round of questions, in the following order: Conservative Party, Liberal Party, Bloc Québécois and NDP. For the second round, it proposes the following: five minutes for the Conservative Party, five minutes for the Liberal Party, five minutes for the Conservative Party, five minutes for the Liberal Party, two and a half minutes for the Bloc Québécois and two and a half minutes for the New Democratic Party.

What I understand from Mr. Beaulieu's proposal is that he wants to reduce the time allotted to witness presentations from 10 minutes to five, and to make up those five minutes in the second round, so that the NDP and the Bloc Québécois will each have five minutes as well.

Let's clarify all of this so that we can deal with the amendment and vote on the motion.

I will first give the floor to Mrs. Lalonde and then to Mr. Beaulieu, based on the raised hands I see on the screen.

Go ahead, Mrs. Lalonde.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In response, Mr. Généreux, I must say that this routine motion is the one that was adopted in February of this year, and I also believe it corresponds to a long-standing practice of the Standing Committee on Official Languages and other committees.

My colleague Mr. Beaulieu is only proposing that we change the speaking order and cut five minutes from witness presentations. In your intervention, Mr. Généreux, you said that you would like to keep the 10 minutes allocated to witnesses. Personally, I would lean toward the proposal of my colleague Ms. Lambropoulos, which is to ensure a spirit of cooperation, as has always existed within the committee, by the way, and which is very pleasant. As Mr. Duguid was saying, our wonderful chair can ensure that spirit of collaboration and ensure that all members and their respective parties are entitled to their speaking time.

I must reiterate the importance of keeping the routine motion that was passed in the first session of the 43rd Parliament. Thanks to you, Mr. Chair, we will ensure that the Bloc Québécois and the New Democratic Party keep their two-and-a-half minute speaking time in subsequent rounds, while respecting the speaking time and order proposed in the original motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay. Thank you.

There are four people who want to speak: Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Dalton, Ms. Ashton and Mr. Duguid.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I think it's important to keep the same order. I'm willing to agree to Mr. Généreux's compromise proposal. We would leave 10 minutes to the witnesses, we would keep the same speaking order, and we would give five minutes to the Bloc Québécois and five minutes to the NDP, to balance out the speaking time a little bit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Dalton, the floor is yours.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I just want to say that, in my opinion, it is absolutely necessary to keep the 10 minutes allotted to witnesses. They're coming to testify, we want to hear from them, and they have a lot to say. We shouldn't reduce that time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm open to the possibility of keeping the 10 minutes for the witnesses. I think the members have made some good points.

I really liked Mr. Beaulieu's proposal that in the second round, the Conservatives and Liberals speak for five minutes each, the Bloc Québécois and the NDP speak for two and a half minutes each, and then the Conservatives and Liberals speak for five minutes each.

I'm not sure if that's what you just changed, Mr. Beaulieu, but I know that if we keep the 10 minutes allotted to the witnesses, we'll still be pressed for time. That's why I'm open to the possibility of keeping the speaking time of two and a half minutes, but changing the speaking order, so that the Bloc Québécois speaks third and the NDP, fourth, and then the Conservatives and Liberals would have five minutes.

I would like to mention my great appreciation to the committee for its desire to be fair in intervention, but as we all know, we face many technology challenges in virtual sessions. Time is of the essence, and we can't always be flexible, which is why I believe that now that we have the opportunity, we need to develop a formal approach to ensure that all parties have the opportunity to ask questions in the second round. We need to make sure we have a strong democracy on our committee. Again, let's recognize that five minutes may not work for everyone, but the most important thing is to make sure we hear from everyone. Let's keep the two and a half minutes for the Bloc Québécois and the NDP, but let's put them higher on the list, so that they are the third and fourth to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

We'll hear from two more speakers: first, Mr. Duguid, and then Mr. Arseneault.

Go ahead, Mr. Duguid.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A number of people have made my point already, that 10 minutes is absolutely essential to hear delegations. These folks are coming from a long way. From our home province of Manitoba, Ms. Ashton, it's 2,000 miles. Really, to give them only five minutes would not be acceptable. In fact, it would be insulting. I'm glad everyone has made that point, and we seem to have achieved consensus on that item.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

In closing, I'll give the floor to Mr. Arseneault.

Actually, it isn't in closing; let's say that it's an additional intervention.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Which means I'm last but not least.

Ms. Ashton, we're all saying pretty much the same thing, in the end. You may be afraid that because of a lack of time, the last ones on the list will lose their speaking time in the second round, but I can assure you that for as long as I've been here, since 2015, let alone Mr. Dubourg, who remains our chair [Technical difficulty]…

Mr. Chair, my sound is unacceptable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Your mic is on mute.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

My apologies.

As I told Ms. Ashton, we're all saying pretty much the same thing. If your concern is that in the second round, because of a lack of time, certain parties would be eliminated from the list of the routine motion proposed by Mrs. Lalonde, I can assure you of this: I have been on this committee since 2015, with Bernard Généreux, among others, who is a Conservative, and I have never seen a chair cut time by eliminating the time of the last speakers on the list. On the contrary, at their discretion, chairs, even Conservative vice-chairs like Mr. Clarke, among others, would cut time proportionally, so that everyone could say what they had to say within the allotted time. This proportion has always been respected. I've never seen the opposite happen.

Ultimately, everyone is saying pretty much the same thing. It all rests on your little shoulders, Mr. Dubourg, that is to say, respect, in the second round—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

The time allotted to each party is respected, even though it may be shorter for everyone equally.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Arseneault.

Before going to Ms. Ashton, I'll give the floor to Mr. Beaulieu, who had raised his hand.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

At the very least, we could agree with Ms. Ashton's position.

In the original proposal, in the second round, the Conservative and Liberal parties are entitled to two five-minute rounds, and then the Bloc and NDP are entitled to two and a half minutes each. The difference with the amendment is that the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party each get five minutes, then the Bloc and the NDP get their two and a half minutes, and then the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party get their second block of five minutes each.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there have already been times when there wasn't enough time for me to speak again. It's allocated in a way that isn't necessarily more fair, but at least it gives us an extra chance to speak when we have witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Ms. Ashton, the floor is yours.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I fully agree with Mr. Beaulieu; it's a matter of fairness on this committee. I've served on many committees for several years, and even since we've been meeting virtually. We all have a desire to contribute and to be fair, but it is always important to have an agenda to follow to ensure fairness. That's why I support Mr. Beaulieu's comments on the second round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Mr. Dalton also wants to speak.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

No, I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay.

There are many interventions on the issue. It's true that I, too, have to do my job. Rest assured that it's important to me that the time allotted is fair, so that all parties can speak.

I see that you'd like to add something, Ms. Lambropoulos. We're listening.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

The fact that this is even something we're worried about—people not all getting their chance to ask questions—is problematic. I agree that five minutes is taking a lot of time away from our witnesses. However, the witnesses are there to answer our questions. We will be hearing from them. We will be getting their testimony as a whole.

Regardless of which order we're going in, I believe it's important that all of us get to ask our questions, as that is why we're here. Maybe not necessarily removing five minutes from each witness, but lessening their time would be good, if it's going to help us buy some time for everybody to get their chance to speak, and obviously giving discretion to the chair as well. I have full confidence that Mr. Dubourg is a fair chair and is going to do his best to let everybody in and let every party be represented.

Maybe we should be considering.... I fully understand where Mr. Duguid is coming from as well with regard to five-minute testimony, but these witnesses are going to be there for the entire duration of the meeting and they will be answering our questions and providing us with a document as well, hopefully. Maybe we should consider shortening the time so we all get a chance to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Lattanzio.