Official Languages Committee on Feb. 25th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Could you answer in 15 seconds, Ms. Jennings?

[Marlene Jennings]

I think that the federal government needs to do a lot more than it is doing at the moment on behalf of of our francophone brothers and sisters outside Quebec, and I mean the various governments that have succeeded one another, no matter what political party was in power.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I agree with you.

[Marlene Jennings]

The Quebec Community Groups Network Is pleased to see that the government intends to do more to protect and promote French both within and outside Quebec

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Boulerice, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My first questions are for Senator Joyal.

Mr. Joyal, you probably don't remember this, but the first time we met, I was attending the CEGEP in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu. It was 1990, and our discussion was about Meech Lake.

I really liked your intervention on the importance of immigration to ensure that there is a critical mass of francophones in certain communities. Otherwise, the population could shrink and it would become difficult afterwards to maintain resources and services in French.

Quebec controls—you spoke about this earlier—all economic immigration. As Quebec assigns a lot of points to people who know French, this facilitates the arrival of francophone immigrants. We saw this with the people from Maghrebian communities who have settled in Quebec over the past few years.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about what the federal government might do to attract more francophone immigrants to communities outside Quebec to maintain these critical masses.

[Serge Joyal]

Thank you for your question.

I remember the 1990s very well. Perhaps we'll have an opportunity to reminisce at some point.

I can tell you that the Canadian government can do a great deal to encourage people from outside Canada to immigrate to regions where francophone communities are short of workers and resources. I understand that your colleague from British Columbia has an enormous need for French-language teachers. I think this is also the case in several other provinces, as shown by the numbers. One particular situation in Saskatchewan was recently brought to my attention.

There are categories of jobs in these regions designated as essential to the vitality of French in the community. To support the recruitment of such resources, I think that the Canadian government can do a lot more with countries from which newcomers either already know French, or have agreed to take training in French and the accept a job commensurate with their new language skills. I believe that the government could be much more proactive than it has been to date.

I believe that in your exploration of ways to amend the act, you should consider amending the preamble, and in particular subsection 2(b), which says the following about the purpose of the act:

...support the development of English and French linguistic minority communities and generally advance the equality of status and use of the English and French languages within Canadian society...

There is an acknowledgementtechnical difficulties...

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Joyal, your microphone is off.

[Serge Joyal]

Sorry.

I believe that the act should be amended in a way that would specify the Canadian government's obligations much more clearly with respect to promoting this equality and allowing it to develop.

Mr. Boulerice, the problem is very straightforward. If your right to work in French or to be served in French is infringed, you can apply to the federal court. However, if your status as a francophone is not sufficiently supported by the Canadian government, you have no legal recourse.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

There's one minute left, senator.

You mentioned one very important aspect, which is the discoverability of francophone content on the major platforms of the web giants. During this pandemic, we've been able to see just how central they are to our lives.

According to you, are the measures provided for in bill C-10 adequate for the time being?

[Serge Joyal]

No. They clearly are not.

Canada needs to take an initiative in concert with the government of Quebec, as it did in 2005 when it negotiated the UNESCO Convention on the Protection and Promotion of the Diversity of Cultural Expressions. Canada, together with Quebec and the other member countries of the francophonie and the European Union, must negotiate a new treaty to enhance the discoverability of French works on the platforms.

Canada did it in 2005. Why would it not? Why would bill C-10 not make it a government obligation? I read the bill and I'm still waiting for "a bigger splash".

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Joyal.

Mr. Godin, You have the floor for the next four minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to share my speaking time with Mr. Blaney, my honourable colleague from Quebec's South Shore .

I'll begin with a comment, and then ask Ms. Jennings a brief question.

Ms. Jennings, you said that you were delighted with what the project presented by the current government said with respect to official languages. Allow me to tell you that I am not happy about it and that it does not do anything to protect official languages. I wanted you to know this, because we're not on the same wavelength.

You also made a very interesting comment. I like the fact that according to your organization, anglophones are not a threat to francophones. I like this point of view, which I find constructive. I believe that we need to learn from the treatment given to anglophones in Quebec, and to use it as a model that could be exported to Canada.

I believe that if we promote French, Canada will become even stronger in terms of bilingualism. That's my comment. I will now turn over my speaking time to my South Shore colleague Mr Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank my colleague through you. I must say the time is winding down.

I'd like to welcome the witnesses and thank them for appearing before the committee. We have some former parliamentarians, Ms. Jennings and Mr. Joyal, an eminent senator.

It's truly a privilege to have you with us. ^x I was able, as the minister of the francophonie, to underscore the 40th anniversary of the Official Languages Act .

Mr. Joyal, You spoke about immigration, but we see francophones in Quebec gravitating towards English. What can we do to have the Official Languages Act offset this sociological asymmetry and the fact that we are in an anglophone sea? How can we do this while respecting the anglophone minority, which expressed itself very commendably today? How can we prevent this decline, which I would not dare call ineluctable, but which is nevertheless a reality?

I know that this question falls outside of the framework of the Official Languages Act. You spoke about culture and language. I'm going to use the first part of my speaking time to ask this question. Thank you for being with us.

[Serge Joyal]

Would Ms. Jennings like to make any comments? Is the question for Ms. Jennings?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

The question is for both of you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You each have a minute to answer.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Your Honour.

[Marlene Jennings]

Mr. Godin, if you are under the impression that the anglophone community and the Quebec Community Groups Network are delighted with minister Joly's document, then I expressed myself poorly. The document has some good features and we are pleased that the government is proposing direct measures, and promoting French and the vitality of francophone communities.

However, we condemn the fact that no measures have been proposed to deal with all the problems affecting Quebec's English-speaking language community.

I will now hand over to the eminent senator Mr. Joyal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you for your kindness, Ms. Jennings.

Mr. Joyal, you have 30 seconds remaining.

[Serge Joyal]

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

Any approach to strengthen the use of French must be comprehensive. There is an English term, which has been translated into French, which also describes it. That term is "holistic," which means roughly that it addresses all aspects of life. This applies as much to the quality of oral French as it does to the protection of historical heritage, training in future-oriented fields, whatever they may be, and even the use of what I mentioned earlier, which was how the new tools were in fact insidious instruments for latent anglicization.

We simply need to look at the new generations and what they have access to. Previously, we had access to one satellite and 50 television stations. These days, every aspect of our everyday life is covered and influenced by the device we all carry with us. The new generations will in the coming years have nothing but their phones. We need to give this a great deal of thought.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, senator, for your outstanding contribution to this file.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Blaney.

I know that time is going by quickly.

Ms. Martinez Ferrada, You have the floor for four minutes.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

These four minutes will go by in a flash with Senator Joyal, our guests his evening, and our witnesses.

Mr. Joyal, I'd like to return to the issue of demographic decline. Could you tell us more about this?

Before handing over to you, however, I'd like to make a brief comment about your proposals on bill C-10, the francophonie and discoverability.

I'd like to remind my colleagues and the people listening to us that the government took Canada to UNESCO and provided funding for cultural diversity in 2018. It was when my colleague Ms. Joly was in Paris that we addressed digital issues. I know that these discussions have been progressing for three years now. You might even speak about it to our colleague, Minister of Canadian heritage Mr. Guilbeault. There were in fact many international discussions and you are right to say that that is the right direction to take.

Nevertheless, there is an extremely major challenge in terms of francization and immigration. Would you agree that if we focused solely on language of work without doing anything about francization and immigration, and without encouraging immigration corridors within and outside Quebec, the demographic weight of French would decrease in North America?

What's missing is the francization process and the immigration corridors.

You spoke about teachers, but are there other things to mention?

[Serge Joyal]

I believe that it's essential for the Canadian government to further strengthen its immigration officers' profile abroad. That's for both Quebec and the Canadian government. I know that there was a time, for Quebec at least, when the size of the offices was reduced and several were even combined.

For Quebec and Canada alike, it's essential to ensure that the best efforts are made in Canada's embassies and consulates, and at Quebec delegations, to try and target groups that might be interested in the possibilities offered by Canada, and Quebec in particular.

Look at what's happening in the hospital sector. Almost 10,000 people left their jobs during the pandemic.

Look what's happening with the childhood education centres (CPEs) in Quebec; the government was unable to keep its promise, because there were not enough early childhood educators.

Look at what happened in the agriculture sector last summer.

There are all kinds of opportunities. However, we get the impression that all of these many opportunities in Québec, like those elsewhere in Canada, are insufficiently understood and do not use enough arguments to take advantage of the immigration resources that exist in other countries