Official Languages Committee on June 1st, 2021

[Denis Racine]

We received no specific request for Laurentian University. Under our bilateral agreements with Ontario, funding was allocated for post-secondary education, and a part of that funding goes to Laurentian University.

We received no request from the province about the situation at Laurentian University.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

How much money did the federal government contribute to Laurentian University through the province?

[Denis Racine]

Under the former protocol, the contribution was simply a global amount for post-secondary education. Last year, for the first time, the amounts were for post-secondary institutions. If I am not mistaken, about $1.9 million went to Laurentian University in 2018-2019 or 2019-2020.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you.

I would like some things to be clarified for Mr. Godin.

Can the Department of Canadian Heritage fund post-secondary institutions directly through its programs? If Laurentian University, the Université de Moncton or the Campus Saint-Jean asked you to fund its activities, could you do so?

[Denis Racine]

The answer to that comes in two parts. Since education is in provincial jurisdiction, we cannot fund the expenses for which the provinces are responsible. So we cannot fund operational or administration expenses, given that they are the responsibility of the provinces.

However, under the support programs for official languages, we can join with the provinces to sweeten the pot. We can help them to develop initiatives, improve programming, develop new programs, and even support recruitment. Those are only some of the examples. We recognize the specific needs for French as a minority language across the country.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

To make sure that I fully understand, could you tell me how much of the total envelope for the official languages in education program, the OLEP, is normally used in a year by the provinces to support post-secondary education?

[Denis Racine]

The funding varies from province to province. Earlier, I told you that an amount of $1.9 million went to Laurentian University.

The funding varies from province to province and from year to year. Some of our funding is allocated to post-secondary education through bilateral agreements. We also have what we call complementary funds. These are used to fund special projects and projects that last for some time. They are used as a top-up, or to meet a particular need for a specific time.

So the funding varies from year to year, with no specific formula. We do not promise that a specific amount will be allocated to everyone in the post-secondary area. It's based on needs and on initiatives that the provinces design and submit to the department.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

So the provinces decide. You make the funds available and a province determines how it will distribute them.

[Denis Racine]

Discussions are held with the provinces about action plans. The bilateral agreements actually work through action plans. The federal level and the appropriate provincial level must agree on an action plan. We start with a basic discussion to agree on the initiatives that will result in funding. That is shared between the federal and provincial levels. A province can decide on its own to fund 100% of an initiative. But, within the framework of collaboration between the federal and provincial levels, things are done by discussion and mutual agreement.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

You mentioned a $1.9 million OLEP envelope that was given to Laurentian University for 2019-2020. Yet, Laurentian University's budget is over $200 million. So it's not this funding alone that will ensure the quality of French-language programs. That's kind of the point; the minister explained it. My colleagues think that the federal government could have transferred $100 million, but that is simply not possible. Post-secondary education is a provincial responsibility. The minister said so and you said so as well.

It is clear, however, that we have a role to play in ensuring the strength of our French programs. This is the money in the budget that we provided. A record $121.3 million was provided. This has never been done before. I think it can help, but for us at Laurentian University, it's too late. That's why the community is looking for a plan with local stakeholders. The goal is to ensure the sustainability of our programs here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Lefebvre. That is all the time you had.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Blaney for five minutes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's very clear, basically, and we understand that the money has to go through the province.

My question to Mr. Racine is very simple. If the province comes up with a $5-million project, can the money intended to rescue Laurentian University flow through the province?

[Denis Racine]

If the question is whether the money should or can go through the province, the answer is yes. This will follow a proposal from the province.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

That's what I wanted to know. Thank you very much, Mr. Racine.

So, clearly, the federal government can provide $5 million, go through the province and help the community.

If the Liberals want to play politics and set conditions, that's another story. Nevertheless, that is normal, given that we are politicians. I'm not going to drag you into that, Mr. Racine. You have answered my question. The federal government could allocate $5 million to Laurentian University tomorrow morning if the province submitted a plan.

I would especially like to return to the white paper on official languages. The minister herself emphasized that she wanted to recognize how important post-secondary institutions are to the vitality of communities. We also discussed the decline of French.

Are you able to tell us whether a bill could be tabled? I know that the question was put to the minister and that she was unable to answer it.

The Conservative members of this committee are ready to support the modernization of the act that communities have been asking for since 2016.

Could a bill be introduced by the end of June?

[Denis Racine]

Unfortunately, I cannot answer your question. I don't know exactly when the bill will be tabled.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

All right. I agree that it is rather a political issue.

I apologize if I put Mr. Racine on the spot. I was asking him the question, as I did not have time to ask the minister.

It's important to us that the federal government take a leadership role. Do you have any examples where the federal government has supported post-secondary institutions without there necessarily being a matching provincial contribution in certain circumstances?

[Denis Racine]

There are many examples of our funding post-secondary institutions across the country.

It is always important to remember the overriding condition of the famous equal sharing of the funding amount between the federal government and the province. However, nothing prevents the province from providing more. In some situations, and this is the case this year, the province provides more than the federal contribution for certain projects that have to do with post-secondary education.

I reiterate that it varies. That said, in each of the provinces and territories, whether it's the French program at Simon Fraser University, Campus Saint-Jean, Collège Mathieu, or the Université de Saint-Boniface, among others, federal funding is provided to post-secondary institutions through bilateral agreements that we have with the provinces and territories for mother tongue and second language instruction.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

So there is flexibility on both sides. The province or the federal government can provide more funding, but there is a general principle of matching funds.

Thank you.

An amount of $121.3 million has already been budgeted. We have talked a lot about the education continuum. We also know that the federal government was doing more to fund secondary and primary education. Now we see the great need for early childhood, post-secondary, college and university education. I would even add continuing education.

Within this $121.3 million funding, is there money specifically for elementary and post-secondary education, as seems to be the case for Laurentian University?

[Denis Racine]

There are two possible answers to your question.

First, the budget clearly states that these funds are earmarked for post-secondary education.

Secondly, the education continuum was recognized when we signed the most recent protocol with the provinces and territories. Previously, the focus was on primary and secondary education, but it is now recognized that there is a continuum and that the pre-school and post-secondary levels are part of the educational process.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Okay.

Will there be funds to encourage English school boards to offer French immersion programs?

[Denis Racine]

In Quebec, funding is a little different.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I am sorry to interrupt you. I am asking for all the provinces. I'm talking about the English-speaking provinces where we want to give anglophones the opportunity to have French immersion programs.

Are there any funds set aside for this?

[Denis Racine]

Yes, that's right.

In the last federal budget, $180.4 million was invested in second-language education. This includes immersion programs across the country.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Racine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Racine.

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

Mr. Lefebvre, you have the floor for five minutes.