Official Languages Committee on June 8th, 2021

[Anne Vinet-Roy]

Yes, definitely.

The federal government is responsible for assuring that educational systems in both official languages have comparable services, resources and course offerings. The concept of equity is often applied, but not necessarily that of equality. Ms. Adam referred earlier to this by pointing out that in some regions, it might be more expensive to have some services in French at identical or comparable levels to those in the English-language system. I'm speaking about Ontario here, but generally speaking, francophone communities vary from one location to another. Some communities are smaller, more isolated or more spread out than others.

The federal government definitely has a responsibility with respect to the two official languages. It's definitely possible for provincial governments to be unable to do everything all the time. It all depends on circumstances and available resources. It's an important responsibility, at least in terms of support. This vitality definitely needs to be protected and strengthened. Everything hinges on education systems and school communities. After all, a school is much more than a physical location.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Okay. So—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me for interrupting, Mr. Blaney. I've just looked at how much time we have left. We need to end the meeting at 5:30 p.m. Rather than six minutes, let's take seven minutes each and we won't have another round of questions.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

In that case, I'm going to share my speaking time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

All right. You have a minute and a half left.

Who are you going to share this time with?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I'll share it with Mr. Dalton.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay.

Over to you, Mr. Dalton.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much for this additional time.

Ms. Vinet-Roy, I used to be a high school teacher. I know there is competition for French second language teachers and immersion teachers. You said that 480 teachers a year were being trained, when we need 940 new teachers every year. Can you tell us more about this competition?

Also, does the federal government give money to help finance French teacher education? Are there any programs like that?

[Anne Vinet-Roy]

Funding is not necessarily part of my area of expertise. Perhaps Ms. Adam could answer that better than I.

We feel that the federal government could do more to support what the provincial government is doing, or to compensate for what it is not doing. We are aware of this potential competition between the two school systems. I, for example, when I began my education, my two teaching methodology areas were French as a first language and French as a second language. I began my career in French as a second language teacher, and then began teaching in francophone minority settings. There has always been competition. This competition is dangerous because there is a risk of losing teachers who truly care about French.

There's a big difference between the immersion program and French-language minority education. I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but there are noteworthy differences in terms of francophone identity-building and cultural transmission. It's much more than simply language, literature and things like that. It's much broader.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Vinet-Roy.

Thank you, Mr. Dalton.

We'll go to Ms. Lalonde now, for the next seven minutes.

You could also share your time. Don't forget to mention who your questions are for.

Go ahead, Ms. Lalonde.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I will be sharing my speaking time with my colleague from Sudbury, Mr. Lefebvre.

I'd like to begin by wishing you all a good afternoon. Thanks for being here. It's a pleasure to welcome you to the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

I have only a few minutes, so I'll get to my questions right away.

Ms. Adam, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the federal-provincial funding agreements for education, which in my view is a matter of provincial jurisdiction.

How do you see things working out in the future if the federal government funding were to become permanent?

Federal funding is one thing, but as we've heard from other participants, the provincial government was not providing its contribution, and had completely disengaged. This happened in Alberta, and also in New Brunswick in some respects.

[Dyane Adam]

As you know, I am in Ontario. I spoke to you about the province's most recent funding for the operating budgets of post-secondary educational institutions. These funds are added to the core funding received by all the other universities.

I believe that we are way ahead in Ontario because the province has for several decades recognized that there are indeed additional costs and the province has already covered some of these. Has it done enough? Not at all. But in my opinion, compared to the other provinces, it's the best model for everyone to follow.

Nevertheless, at the moment, the federal government is not paying its fair share compared to what the province is giving.

I think that our colleagues have told us what we need. The federal government must recognize that the status of French, and of official language minority communities, varies enormously from one part of the country to another. The provincial government commitments to these minority communities also vary.

But as the federal government has a quasi-constitutional responsibility for the long-term continuity of official language communities across the country, it must provide the funds needed to keep these communities viable and able to rely on strong institutions, across Canada.

The federal government is investing in all kinds of areas, including in the economy and companies. But it must also consider official language communities as part of the Canadian fabric. That is fundamental. I believe that the federal government has a primary responsibility and I therefore expect leadership from it.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Ms. Adam, you are very familiar with the current situation at Laurentian University.

What do you think of the idea of a Francophone post-secondary network for Ontario? Do you think that the Université de l'Ontario français would have a role to play in a network like this? What would that mean?

[Dyane Adam]

As you know, Ms. Lalonde, when you were the Ontario Minister of Francophone Affairs, the planning board for a French-language university in Ontario tabled a structural document that provided an overview of what the Université de l'Ontario français would look like, and also sketched out a network of small Ontario francophone teaching institutions. These of course included the University of Sudbury, Saint Paul University, Dominican University College and the Université de Hearst.

At the time, these small universities already wanted to join together to share some resources, whether digital or otherwise, but nothing further has happened there yet, because the UOF is still in the implementation phase.

However, Université Hearst and Laurentian University have been working closely together since the establishment of the UOF. My colleague Denis Berthiaume could tell us more about that. These two universities have been working very effectively together and have been thinking about different ways of doing so, not only for programs but resources too.

So it can be done, but these educational institutions would have to reach a substantial critical mass for the network to be a strong one.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you.

I'll leave the rest of my speaking time to Mr. Lefebvre. He will probably want to add something on this subject.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

How much time is left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have two minutes, Mr. Lefebvre.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Adam, the witnesses told us that when the federal government got involved in the process and enhanced the funding, the provinces would frequently shirk their responsibilities and reduce their financial contribution. They would tell themselves that since the federal government was providing the funding, they could reduce theirs or even stop contributing altogether and spend their money elsewhere on other things they have in mind.

Could you tell us in 30 seconds, Ms. Adam, how we could do something about that?

[Dyane Adam]

I can't say that this is the case in Ontario, because Ontario has been putting more on the table than the federal government in terms of core funding. And there's nothing recent about this, because it has been like that through several different governments.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

In view of the increase announced in the 2020-2021 federal budget, do you think the province will increase its contribution, keep it where it is, or perhaps reduce it?

[Dyane Adam]

I think that whatever happens will be the outcome of a negotiation process. Let's be clear about the fact that universities and colleges have enormous needs, in Ontario and elsewhere.

Although I have worked with the provincial government to ensure that there would be a funding agreement with the federal government, I can't speak on the province's behalf.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Vinet-Roy, I hope everything is going well in Timmins. You are in Timmins, are you not?

[Anne Vinet-Roy]

Not at the moment, but I was there not too long ago.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Okay. I'd nevertheless like to send my best wishes to the people of Timmins.

I'd like to thank you, and all members of the Association who taught my wife and I and who will no doubt teach my children.

I have a question for you about the importance of education and our future teachers, as well as about the cuts that were made at Laurentian University. We continually hear about the shortage of teachers. We're looking for them all the time and we're not finding them. Even here in Sudbury, it's difficult to track them down.

If there is no change in the situation, what short- and long-term problems will it cause?

[Anne Vinet-Roy]

As we said earlier, if things don't change, the shortage of teachers will continue to get worse and the problems will pile up. Things aren't going to level out because there is a growing number of students in several Ontario regions. There have been times when the demographics changed, but then the number of students started rising again, and staff were needed to deal with them.

There are problems already. For example, some teacher education programs are no longer being offered, like the intermediate senior certificate. This creates a very problematic gap in specialized areas of education, which are essential at the secondary level.