Official Languages Committee on June 8th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 38 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f), the committee is meeting on the study of the federal support for French-language or bilingual post-secondary institutions in a minority situation.

I would like to outline a few rules to follow. I remind you that members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. I also remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the Chair. Should any technical challenges arise, please raise your hand and we can correct the situation immediately.

I would like to remind all participants and attendees that you cannot take photos or screen captures.

First of all, a housekeeping matter before we begin hearing the witnesses. Members of the committee, the budget for this study has been emailed to you, and you have all received a copy. The budget amounts to $2,350. I would like to know whether there are any objections to our adopting the budget for this study.

That's done then. Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chair and colleagues.

We will now welcome our witnesses for the first hour, and I would like to offer them a warm welcome.

We have Denis Prud'homme, who is Rector and Vice-Chancellor of the Université de Moncton, and Pierre-Yves Mocquais, who is Dean and Executive Chief Officer of Campus Saint-Jean at the University of Alberta.

Gentleman, each of you will have five minutes for your opening statement. I normally use cards to warn you when you have one minute left or that your time is up.

Without further ado, I yield the floor to you, Mr. Prud'homme, for five minutes.

[Denis Prud'homme, Rector and Vice-Chancellor, Université de Moncton]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the members of the committee for inviting me to take part in the deliberations of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

The Université de Moncton has three campuses in high-density Acadian regions in New Brunswick, in Edmunston, Shippagan and Moncton.

Our mandate is to facilitate access to post-secondary education for Acadians. Our mission as a non-specialized university is to offer a range of training programs that meet the needs of professionals in all francophone minority communities. The good news is that 87% of our graduates work in New Brunswick, which is a clear indication that the ability to study in one's language in one's own community plays an important role in the vitality of francophone minority communities.

With respect to the financial situation of the Université de Moncton, 75% of our funding comes from the Government of New Brunswick, 23% from tuition fees, which are determined by enrolment, and 2% from the profits our services generate.

It is important to note that New Brunswick government funding has risen on average by 0.7% over the past 10 years, as a result of which we have had to raise tuition fees by 24% over the past 3 years in order to balance our budget. This increase may have an impact on access to post-secondary education given the socioeconomic situation and educational level of Acadians and francophones in New Brunswick.

The student body still includes first-generation students. Of their total number, 70% have graduated from New Brunswick secondary schools, 7% are students from elsewhere in Canada and 23% are foreign francophone students.

We receive between 3,000 and 4,000 applications from foreign students every year. We accept approximately 1,500 of those applications but enrol barely 200 in September. That's mainly attributable to the tuition fees charged for international francophone students, which are nearly double those of Canadian students.

We need help because, like any business, we have to absorb the annual rise in operating costs due to pay increases and inflation, which amount to $2 million or $3 million, all in a context of declining demographics. We know New Brunswick's population is aging.

To balance our budget, our administration, like previous administrations, has had to make budget cuts of 2% to 3% across the board over the past 10 years. As a result, our budget has declined by more than $25 million during that period. This isn't a black Monday for the Université de Moncton, but it has been 10 years of darkness. If changes are not made, more dark years will follow.

The budget reductions take the form of cuts in the positions of professors who are not replaced and voluntary retirements. This is starting to have a major impact on our ability to offer high-quality programs, provide support to our students and offer them services. Consequently, the Université de Moncton is facing real financial risk. Although we have met our financial responsibilities so we can ensure the university's short-term survival, our long-term financial vitality is not guaranteed because we are facing a structural deficit. Our declining revenues prevent us from covering the expenses incurred in providing support for the various programs.

Even though we are introducing strategies for making efficiency gains, we are at a point where we have to make tougher choices such as cutting certain programs and services, postponing infrastructure maintenance and reducing both scientific and cultural activities on our campuses.

In fact, we are asking the federal government to introduce positive measures to support the development and vitality of the francophone communities.

We propose that the post-secondary educational institutions of the francophone minority communities, including the Université de Moncton, be granted financial support in addition to that provided for existing programs and that it become permanent in order to support their activities.

Project funding cannot be the only solution. Other solutions could include: a permanent subsidy annually indexed to the rate of inflation and a major trust fund like those granted for older English-language universities, which may use those funds to supplement inadequate operating capital. One example of a trust fund is that granted to the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities, the CIRLM, where the government has invested $10 million. The Institute uses the interest from its fund to finance its activities.

We obviously need scholarships for Canadian and even international students so we can lower their tuition fees to the same level as those of New Brunswick students.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Prud'homme.

Mr. Mocquais, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Pierre-Yves Mocquais, Dean and Executive Chief Officer, Campus Saint-Jean, University of Alberta]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks as well to the members of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages for inviting me to appear before the committee.

Campus Saint-Jean was founded in 1908. It is an integral part of the University of Alberta, has been a faculty of that institution since 1977 and plays a fundamental and growing role in Alberta and in western and northern Canada. The campus is the only French-language institution west of Winnipeg that offers a broad range of college-level programs at the baccalaureate level and in graduate-level business administration, the humanities and social sciences, education, the natural and physical sciences, nursing, speech therapy and engineering.

Campus Saint-Jean thus plays a fundamental role in maintaining the vitality of the francophone minority community. In many respects, it is the cultural hub of the traditional French-language community in Alberta and the entire west, as well as the growing communities of new francophone immigrants and young students from French immersion programs wishing to pursue their education in French in a country whose linguistic duality they largely consider a fact and essential to their future.

In the 1976 agreement signed by the Province of Alberta, the University of Alberta and the Oblates of Mary Immaculate, the owners of Collège Saint-Jean, the three parties, with the sponsorship of the Government of Canada, undertook to provide funding to ensure the continued existence and growth of Campus Saint-Jean.

Since the 2000s, however, the campus has experienced permanent and growing financial instability. Whether the situation arose in 2003, when transfers were frozen under the official languages in education program, or OLEP, as the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne, or ACUFC, asserted in its presentation to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages, or in 2009, as noted in the report of the Commissioner of Official Languages, the fact remains that the situation of Campus Saint-Jean is nevertheless critical.

There are at least four reasons for this situation.

The first is the quota the University of Alberta sets for Campus Saint-Jean. Although the quota is currently 575 full-time equivalents, we now have 750, and an actual head count shows that we have more than 1,000 students. The quota thus imposes a limit on us because it reduces our operating budget.

The second reason is the dilly-dallying over federal-provincial agreements, which are always too late in materializing. For example, the last Alberta-Canada agreement was signed two years late. Although federal funding represents approximately 30% of Campus Saint-Jean's operating budget, the University of Alberta authorizes the institution to hire contract personnel only, not professors, to fill tenure-track positions on the federal portion of its budget.

The third reason is changes in federal funding. Since 2003 or 2009, depending on the analysis you accept, that funding has been shifted from providing support for core programs to special projects, as my colleague Denis Prud'homme previously mentioned. While this funding is definitely appealing, it also causes growing imbalances that jeopardize the institution and its operation. As a result, the federal government has stated in its action plan that it wishes to support the training and retention of teachers in francophone schools and French immersion programs. Campus Saint-Jean, of course, welcomes this, but while it expands its master's training programs in three regions of Alberta—Calgary, Red Dear and Grande Prairie—thanks to this targeted funding, it is required to hire contract personnel at the very moment it finds itself having to reduce its overall course offerings and is unable to replace permanent professors, who either retire or are hired by other universities. As a result, Campus Saint-Jean's faculty has declined from 33 to 28 professors in the past two years, whereas we would have between 42 and 45 if we had a normal-sized faculty.

The fourth reason is the province's obligation to provide matching funding. With regard to programming, the Alberta government feels it has already already done enough by contributing to initial core funding and therefore contributes nothing to matching funding and has refused for some time now to pay anything for infrastructure.

In closing, if I may, I would say my main concern is the crucial issue of international francophone students, particularly from Africa, who are particularly hard hit by this situation.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Mocquais.

Since time passes quickly when you only have five minutes, I would ask you please to send us a a brief. You may forward it to the clerk this week.

Members of the committee will now ask you questions. I will therefore yield the floor first to our Vice-Chair, Mr. Blaney, who may share his time with another member of the committee.

Mr. Blaney, go ahead for six minutes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Since I arrived late, I haven't had a chance to test my microphone. I'd like to make sure with the clerk that there are no sound problems on my end.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Nancy Vohl]

It's good.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excellent.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to welcome our two guests.

Mr. Prud'homme and Mr. Mocquais, I'm tempted to say you are both favourites of the committee. I'm speaking on behalf of its members here. Why? Because you are the spokespersons of two flagships of the Canadian francophonie. I of course want to tell you that we think you occupy in a very important position because you play an extremely important role in the Atlantic region and the provinces.

Mr. Chair, you mentioned that I might share my time, and that's indeed the case. I'm going to yield the floor to my colleague Joël Godin, who has a question for Mr. Mocquais.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

Mr. Mocquais, I had the privilege of speaking to members of the Association des universitaires de la Faculté Saint-Jean, at the University Alberta, who told me about their sad situation. What you said in your statement is consistent with what they told me, that there is strong demand but that those students don't have access to the French-language courses that would enable them to complete their programs in that language.

Is that correct, Mr. Mocquais?

[Pierre-Yves Mocquais]

That's correct, Mr. Godin.

For lack of funding, we are increasingly forced to ask students, especially at the postgraduate level, to take courses in English in other faculties at the university.

That's hardly a problem for traditional francophone students and students from immersion schools. However, it's not the case of students from francophone regions of Africa or Haiti, as was true of some students in my class last semester. Since they can't take those courses because their English isn't necessarily very good, their course options are thus limited.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Mocquais.

I'd like to ask you a brief final question before yielding to my colleague.

Aren't you required under Canada's Official Languages Act to offer French-language programs, from A to Z, at the post-secondary level?

[Pierre-Yves Mocquais]

From what I understand of the present act, that's not the case. The act applies from kindergarten to grade 12. At the post-secondary level, however, we have to ensure that most, though not necessarily all, courses are offered in French.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Mocquais.

I now yield the floor to my colleague, Mr. Chair.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

Mr. Mocquais, we recently heard from the representative of Laurentian University and agency representatives. People seem to realize that what's essential for our communities is having truly strong and independent institutions. Since Campus Saint-Jean is part of the University of Alberta, federal funding, for example, flows through the university.

Do you think Campus Saint-Jean should be an independent university, given that money is so important? With that status, you would obviously have the recognition and a more independent hand in managing your funds. As the saying goes, you'd have “both hands on the wheel”.

Wouldn't that reflect the wishes of the Oblates of Mary Immaculate when they ceded the campus to the University of Alberta?

[Pierre-Yves Mocquais]

Mr. Blaney, I can't tell you what the Oblates of Mary Immaculate were thinking at the time. However, I can say that there are two ways to view the matter. On the one hand, you can say that Campus Saint-Jean could definitely do more if it were more independent. On the other hand, its attachment to one of the major research universities in Canada is an undeniable asset that attracts to our institution very high-calibre professors, who enter a francophone faculty but within a large research university currently ranked as one of the best in the world.

Considering those two ways of viewing the matter, it seems to me complete independence wouldn't necessarily be the best solution. However, more independence is something we might consider.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you. That's at least clear.

Mr. Prud'homme, you mentioned in your statement that you would like to have permanent federal government financial support. I'm pleased to inform you that it is the wish of our leader, Erin O'Toole, to secure stable funding for post-secondary institutions in minority language communities.

One thing I find somewhat shocking—and I was previously part of the government—is that budgets aren't indexed. For example, you mentioned a provincial-level increase of 0.7%.

Have there been any federal increases since the OLEP freeze? What do you think will happen now? How do you go about looking for additional funding so you can remain flexible and not charge excessively high tuition fees?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 15 seconds left, Mr. Prud'homme.

[Denis Prud'homme]

The OLEP contributions have varied from $6.5 million to $7 million a year over the past 5 years. The only way to soften the blow of non-indexing for inflation is to increase the number of students.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

Thank you very much, Mr. Prud'homme.

Mr. Arseneault will ask the next questions.

Go ahead for six minutes, Mr. Arseneault.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Prud'homme and Mr. Mocquais, thank you for the honour of your presence here today. For us, you are symbols of the resistance. I feel I'm looking at the covers of the Asterix albums, at those characters that resist the invader again and again, the invader in this instance being the dominant language of North America.

Mr. Prud'homme, I'll get right down to brass tacks. What is the annual budget of the Université de Moncton?

[Denis Prud'homme]

As I mentioned, the current budget is about $120 million. As I also said, it has declined by slightly more than $25 million over the past 10 years as a result of annual cuts of $2 million to $3 million, depending on the year.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Are those cuts made by the province?

[Denis Prud'homme]

They aren't made by the province. They're simply the result of higher expenses due to inflation, annual salary increases and infrastructure maintenance.