Official Languages Committee on Nov. 13th, 2020

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

I have another question along the same lines. We hear that the French language is declining in Quebec. I don't want to call it a myth; I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. I've heard that on several occasions. I have to see proof in order to believe that. We've seen on several occasions that people have this perception.

In your view, do you think that it is due to the workplace or to other issues, such as perhaps entertainment, perhaps the social aspect of things? What exactly do you think contributes to this decline of French in Quebec?

[Raymond Théberge]

What I would say with respect to any language is that it's more than the workplace, more than the schools. You live your life in a linguistic environment. There are many factors that impact that linguistic environment. Which ones can you actually control, and which ones can you not control? I think we have to look at those factors that are having a significant impact on this question. I think we can look at.... Whether it's French in Quebec or French in Manitoba, there are a lot of factors that have come into play, be they cultural or economic. It doesn't matter. There are a whole slew of factors that impact the evolution of language in society.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Théberge.

Mr. Beaulieu, you now have the floor for the next six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Commissioner, you say that the perception of English speakers is outdated, but I disagree. We know that, in relation to their demographic weight, their institutions, whether primary or secondary schools, are overfunded. Funding for higher education is three times higher overall than the proportion of anglophones, while in the rest of Canada the opposite is true. Generally speaking, it is francophone institutions that are underfunded in relation to the demographic weight of francophones. It is among allophones who speak French only that the unemployment rate is the highest. They are the ones most penalized by the decline of French.

Currently, francophones in Quebec are considered a majority, which means that they are never consulted. All Quebec organizations that defend and promote French are excluded. They were also excluded from Ms. Joly's large consultation, except for Impératif français because it was considered to be from Canada's capital region.

Don't you think that it would be a good idea to also consult researchers and groups that defend and promote French in Quebec?

[Raymond Théberge]

I will refer to the comments that were made in the Speech from the Throne, which talks about the state of French in the Canadian context of North America. I think that the federal government's findings should lead to a reflection on what should be done to ensure the sustainability of French across the country. Of course, Quebec has already implemented in the province certain means to achieve this. I think the survival of French in Canada is paramount. During the Speech from the Throne, the question was raised as to what must be done to concretize what has been put forward.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

These will be interesting discussions.

To get back to the budget, after 51 years, you're sounding the alarm. The problems are many. Demographically, things aren't going well either. Urgent action is needed. But your budget remains the same. Does that make sense to you?

If you want to change things, shouldn't you increase your budget?

If so, which areas would be the most appropriate for an increase?

[Raymond Théberge]

With respect to the budget of the Office of the Commissioner, its mandate must be considered. As I said earlier, it would be interesting to have additional resources for research, studies and audits. However, the Office of the Commissioner remains a small organization. Our role is not to replace others. If there is a question of implementing a real promotion program, it isn't the Office of the Commissioner, with its few employees, that will be able to do it.

Too often, when we provide certain services, we are acting as a stand in for federal organizations, in my opinion. We give training on active offer and on how to run bilingual meetings. This should be part of the mandate of the School of Public Service. A promotional campaign should be the responsibility of federal institutions that have the means to carry it out. For us, we must remember what our mandate is and how best to fulfill it.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You say that $7.5 million is allocated to investigations, audits and other compliance activities. Does this also include investigations involving more funds?

Special status is being sought in New Brunswick, for example. It is said that the principle of “where numbers warrant” limits services in French. Could this type of research be done or is it already being done?

[Raymond Théberge]

Through the Compliance Assurance Branch, or CAB, we have done a lot of research on compliance. Since legal services are part of this budget, this branch has done a lot of legal research in several areas.

Promotion also includes the research and policy component. For instance, if we're dealing with an immigration or security issue, very often that's the branch that will take matters in hand. CAB's legal services often deal with section 91 files.

We also have access to specialists in law and other fields outside our office. If we had a larger research budget, we could do more research. The same is true for the research budget of members of Parliament. This wouldn't take away money or resources from investigations and audits.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Théberge.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

The floor is now Ms. Ashton's for the next six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Commissioner, as part of the modernization of the Official Languages Act, can you tell us what additional powers you would need to ensure that the instructions you give are respected?

Please tell us what compliance and accountability mechanisms should be strengthened in the act to ensure that all federal institutions comply once and for all with their linguistic obligations.

[Raymond Théberge]

Thank you for the question.

In our positioning document, we refer to two compliance mechanisms: administrative monetary penalties and binding agreements. These two mechanisms are complementary in some ways. We can certainly sign binding agreements and, if they aren't respected, we can impose administrative monetary penalties.

In terms of sanctions, we would like to create a program for linguistic duality. Funds would be allocated to this program to encourage research on linguistic duality or to promote it, whatever the case may be.

Of course, other mechanisms are available to Parliament but, for our part, we have noted these two compliance mechanisms in particular.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

My next questions will be about complaints. Perhaps your colleague could answer them, if she's still available.

I would like to know the percentage of cases where the complaint processing times are not respected.

[Raymond Théberge]

Can Ms. Saikaley answer that?

[Ghislaine Saikaley, Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

Yes.

Thank you for your question, but I was instead prepared to answer your first question.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

As you wish. We're interested in the answers to both questions.

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

Okay.

Of the older files still under investigation, only two date back to 2017. These are extremely complex cases. We are doing our utmost to make progress on these files. There are also a number of files dating back to 2018. We still have about 30 cases under investigation. The other files are much more recent.

All files receive full attention from our staff. Complainants are always contacted promptly and kept informed of the progress of the investigation. There are many steps in an investigation and many are beyond our control. For example, when we request information from federal institutions, unfortunately, it can take some time for them to respond satisfactorily to our investigations so that we can investigate all the issues.

I don't know if this answers your question. I don't have in front of me the percentage of files where the service standards we set for ourselves were met. It depends on the volume of complaints we receive. As Mr. Théberge explained, in the last five years we have been receiving two to three times as many complaints. Obviously, the higher the volume of complaints, the less we are able to meet our service standards for complaint processing time.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Okay. It is concerning.

To date, how many complaints have not yet been assigned to investigators? Also, on average, how many complaints are assigned to an investigator from the Office of the Commissioner?

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

Complaints are quickly assigned. As Mr. Théberge explained earlier, there is always an admissibility analysis stage. When we receive a complaint, we really have to do this analysis. Usually, it is done quickly. However, in some cases, we need to ask our legal services team for legal opinions, which can take a little longer.

Usually, the complaint is quickly assigned to an investigator, who will contact the parties, also as quickly as possible. A notice is sent to the institution involved, and the complainants are contacted. That's where the investigation begins. We can't necessarily say how long it will take, because it depends on the volume of requests and the complexity of the cases.

In terms of workload, it also varies greatly depending on the complexity of the files. Some investigators are assigned to certain institutions and portfolios. As a result, there may be a higher volume on this side. However, investigative strategies are developed to manage more files in a certain way.

It's difficult to answer this question, and I can't give you a specific number of cases per investigator, unfortunately.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I understand that you can't give a specific number, but do you have any idea which area receives the most complaints?

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

Certainly, the institutions that receive the most complaints are all the ones that deal directly with Canadians.

I think Mr. Théberge mentioned earlier all the institutions that serve the travelling public. For instance, there's Air Canada, the Canada Border Services Agency, the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority and the airport authorities. These are the large institutions that we deal with the most in terms of the number of complaints received.

Still, we receive a wide range of complaints from a large number of federal institutions, but the main categories are those that deal with Canadians on a daily basis, such as the Canada Border Services Agency, but also the Canada Revenue Agency and Public Services and Procurement Canada, among others.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Saikaley.

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

We have one last round of questions. We'll give five minutes to Mr. Blaney, five minutes to Mr. Arseneault, two and a half minutes to Mr. Beaulieu, and two and a half minutes to Ms. Ashton. Then we will vote.

Mr. Blaney, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a few questions for you, Mr. Commissioner.

You mentioned that your budget was already limited and that the pandemic had tripled the number of complaints you were receiving. Is your current budget preventing you from fully carrying out your mandate?

There is talk of a modernization that could lead to an expansion of your mandate. Do you have any expectations in this regard?

In light of this modernization and the discussion we've had today, I have one final question that relates to immigration. Do you track the number of immigrants who are not proficient in either official language? Is that a concern for you?

[Raymond Théberge]

I believe that if modernization continues and becomes a reality, and if the recommendations I have made in this regard are taken into account, it will certainly create new needs within our organization. That's clear. In this context, a submission to Treasury Board will have to be prepared.

To answer your second question, as far as I know, we can't follow up with immigrants who are not learning either official language. When we deliver a bilingual message, we estimate 98% of Canadians understand it. That's the number we use.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Commissioner, I taught in public schools in British Columbia for many years. I remember the process parents had to go through every year to enrol their children in French immersion classes. They had to be at the school gate very early in the morning, or even spend the night outside the school, in order to enrol their children and secure their precious place in the program.

I was able to enrol one of my daughters, who was educated in French and subsequently completed a core French program at Simon Fraser University. My second daughter, on the other hand, was 42nd on the list, when only 40 spaces were available. So she wasn't able to take advantage of this program.

Do you think this situation is acceptable? What should be done?

Education is a provincial responsibility, but the federal government has responsibilities for the learning of both official languages and the preservation of French outside Quebec.