Official Languages Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

That's the way I see it too, Commissioner, but I don't think the minister understands it.

Earlier, Commissioner, you said that a review of the Official Languages Act every five years was too soon. You thought that a review every 10 years would be ideal.

What I was saying when we were trying to convince members to agree to our amendment about the five-year review…

Everyone knows that it's difficult for an ocean liner to change direction. If we say that the review is to be held every five years, then it will probably happen after seven or eight years, and if we say there will be a review every 10 years, it will end up being after 12 or 13 years. On the one hand, you're saying that the decline in French requires urgent action, but then you're saying that five years is too soon.

Could you provide some clarification?

[Raymond Théberge]

An interim report could certainly be considered, in which the current state of affairs could be described along with the information required to continue with the work.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

Mr. Iacono, please go ahead for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the commissioner for coming.

Commissioner, in your 2023–2024 annual report, you say that “TBS is working on a new version of the accountability and reporting framework”.

Can you tell us more about your recommendations with respect to this framework and how they would help to improve accountability, particularly the accountability of federal institutions with respect to official languages?

[Raymond Théberge]

We were indeed consulted, as were many others, on the accountability framework. We don't think that this framework is restrictive enough. I believe federal institutions are still being given too much latitude in determining how they are going to implement the act. I think that we still need to do more to make the framework more restrictive.

I get the impression that the Treasury Board Secretariat often wants to give federal institutions latitude so that they can interpret how best to proceed in their own fashion with implementation. However, we think that the Treasury Board's mandate or role is much more prescriptive, and that it needs to clearly state what has to be done.

I believe that the minister is supposed to be returning to the committee to table an accountability framework.

[Pierre Leduc, Assistant Commissioner, Strategic Orientation and External Relations Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

Yes, it's supposed to be published soon.

[Raymond Théberge]

That will provide us with the definitive version.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You said that it should be more restrictive. Could you give us some examples?

You've said that there are shortcomings and that we're not doing enough. How can we improve things? The best way to explain what you've just said would be to give us a few examples of what hasn't been done and how we can do things differently.

[Raymond Théberge]

I'll return to part VII. More information is needed on positive measures, such as how to choose and implement them. The communities also need to be consulted when developing these positive measures.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Théberge, you're saying that the communities need to be consulted. Can you give us an example of what's being done now and how it could be done better?

[Raymond Théberge]

A concrete mechanism is required. For example, the act refers to the disposal of property. When property becomes available, it's extremely important to consult the communities in order to determine whether it would be useful to them. Communities are often looking for land to build schools. In cities like Vancouver and Toronto, the cost of land is exorbitant. So before disposing of anything, the communities should be consulted.

In many instances, this was not done.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You said that you had been consulted; so you had an opportunity to make recommendations on this.

Were your recommendations implemented? Can you tell us more about that?

Do you think this consultation accomplished anything?

[Raymond Théberge]

We were consulted, but it didn't necessarily lead to the desired outcomes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Can you give us some examples, Commissioner?

[Raymond Théberge]

We'll send you our response in writing.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Iacono.

The next questions will be from the Bloc Québécois and the NDP. I'll give you three minutes each, because I inadvertently allowed more time to two of your colleagues.

Go ahead Mr. Beaulieu, for three minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'd like to talk about the new act that will apply to federally regulated companies in Quebec.

To your knowledge, are there any businesses that will be exempt from the application of the Charter of the French Language?

If you receive complaints about federally regulated companies that are not subject to the Charter of the French Language, do you have ways of taking action?

[Raymond Théberge]

For now, we honestly don't know how it would work. There is no decree or regulation, and several aspects are not defined, such as what constitutes a region with a strong francophone presence. We don't know what our relationship with the Office québécois de la langue française or the labour relations organization would look like, for example. There's a lot of ambiguity and uncertainty at the moment.

So we're waiting. We know that work is being done on the regulation and that it's moving more quickly than before, but there are so many unknowns. It's therefore hard—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Is there work in progress? Do you have a schedule?

[Raymond Théberge]

It's not our schedule, but rather the government's schedule.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I see. So you don't know.

On another topic, the commissaire à la langue française du Québec prepared a report which said that the number of people who did not speak French in Quebec had increased by approximately 50% since 2011, mainly because of temporary immigration. It reported that between 2016 and 2023, the numbers had increased from 86,000 to 528,000 temporary immigrants. It estimated the cost of teaching them French at $11 billion or S12 billion.

As immigration is a federal area of jurisdiction, should funding be allocated to Quebec or should the federal government provide French language training to them?

[Raymond Théberge]

That's certainly the sort of initiative that could be negotiated between the Quebec government and the Canadian government. However, it's important not to forget that we're talking about all foreign temporary workers in Canada, including Quebec. Companies need workers.

Nevertheless, it's clear that more foresight is needed with respect to the impact of these decisions on our communities. I was saying earlier that a holistic immigration policy was required. There are so many factors involved in immigration that it's difficult to anticipate their impact on communities.

Immigration has become a hot topic just about everywhere. It's therefore important to find a way to discuss what constitutes a proper francophone immigration policy for Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner and Mr. Beaulieu.

Ms. Ashton, please go ahead for three minutes.