Official Languages Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Raymond Théberge]

Thank you very much.

Actually, when we talk about a periodic review of the act in 2033, people think that's way into the future. However, it's already 2024, and the act was assented to in 2023. We've already lost a year.

It's important to measure the impact of the act on the communities first and then on the federal government. We also need to determine which elements of the act are working and which aren't.

We may not have the necessary expertise in my office to determine types of indicators, but I will nevertheless cite a few examples. We can have data on various elements, such as demographics, rights holders, the various community elements, compliance and the parts of the act that we most often use.

It's extremely important to compile that data so that, in 2032—and I don't know who'll be sitting around the table then—the members of this committee can consult a bank of data gathered over a 10-year period for them to consider.

I say that because one thing is clear: The communities will change. Major changes will take place in Canadian society over the next decade. We must therefore ensure that the act can always meet society's needs. That's why we made that recommendation. We want the Department of Canadian Heritage to look into this matter as soon as possible.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much.

I agree with you. The last time, we waited 36 years before reviewing the act. Progress has been made, and we can point to certain elements, but it would probably have been preferable to make adjustments as we went along. However, you need to conduct an in-depth analysis first so you can make adjustments.

You said that 10 years just fly by, and you've already been Commissioner for nearly seven years. You now have new powers that you haven't yet had a chance to use, powers that I hope you'll use soon. As you know, time passes very quickly.

Would you please tell us briefly about those new powers? Have you worked with the three categories: compliance, orders and penalties? If so, how is that going?

[Raymond Théberge]

We announced a deployment plan during the press conference for the release of the annual report and have restructured my office in the past nine months to reflect these new powers. We've brought in expertise but are still waiting for the resources we need to move forward. We'll also be launching a new investigation process this coming July.

This new investigation process should be viewed as a highway. When someone files a complaint now, we rule it admissible, conduct an investigation and prepare a report. In future, when someone files a complaint, this new highway will let us make use of a variety of on-ramps and exits. We'll be able to go to mediation, which will be introduced in July. We'll also be able to enter into compliance agreements, which will also be established in July or August. Later on, we'll be able to issue orders depending on the situation. We propose to implement that in the fall. To carry out these processes, we need to develop internal tools, provide training and develop expertise. We'll have to take it seriously because we'll be dealing with new powers.

Our organization has become quite legalistic, by which I mean that people can challenge our decisions much more frequently than in the past, but our new compliance mechanisms are far more robust than our former recommendation powers. However, there are some powers that we can't implement, either because we have no regulations or because the act hasn't yet been passed.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you for those details.

That will lead to far more transparency, which will let us know what's going on in government, what's working and what isn't.

However, I noticed that this year's report doesn't include a list of offenders, which would provide some transparency. I really like transparency.

So you decided not to publish the list. Can you name the two worst offenders? It would be interesting to know who they are.

[Raymond Théberge]

There are a lot of them.

Although there were fewer complaints this year, the percentage was the same. There were a lot of complaints from the travelling public. So I'm talking about Air Canada. Complaints were also filed against the Canada Border Security Agency, Employment and Social Development Canada, Global Affairs Canada, and I forget the fifth one.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I'll stop you there because—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have five seconds left, Mr. Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

All right. Let's take Air Canada, for example. What power do you think will let you lean on it harder?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's an excellent question, Mr. Samson, but you'll have to wait for the answer.

The next questions will be asked by the second vice-chair, Mr. Beaulieu, from the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses as well for being here. It's always a pleasure to see you.

We've discussed at length the funding of post-secondary institutions and so on. Do you think that fair funding for francophone post-secondary institutions outside Quebec is an important factor in enhancing the francophone minorities' linguistic vitality?

[Raymond Théberge]

That's actually mentioned in the act because part VII refers to the education continuum, and post-secondary education is an important part of that continuum. Having lived in Moncton and Saint-Boniface, I know from experience that the role post-secondary institutions play in the development of communities is important. They need to be funded in a manner commensurate with their needs.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's essentially what Frédéric Lacroix and Nicolas Bourdon said.

If that's important for francophone communities outside Quebec, don't you think it's important for Quebec francophones to have adequately funded institutions too?

[Raymond Théberge]

I think all post-secondary educational institutions should be properly funded. Are you referring to public or partially public institutions? That depends on the funding that governments provide.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

For example, do you think it's offensive to say that attendance at an anglophone university or CEGEP in Montreal increases the likelihood of working in English and thus has an anglicizing effect?

Why do people like Mr. Drouin consider an observation like that offensive?

[Raymond Théberge]

As I said earlier in my answer to the first question, presenting certain information, data and tables may help explain a trend, but is that the only factor? I don't think so.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

We don't either.

[Raymond Théberge]

As I didn't attend that meeting, I don't know what was said.

What's important is to realize that it's extremely important, especially for minority francophones, to have access to an education system in their language, from early childhood to the post-secondary level, in order to offset the effects of the very anglophone community in which they live.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

All right.

For example, in a recent report, the Office québécois de la langue française stated that there had been a decline in the use of French, particularly among young people in Gatineau and Montreal. Minister Jean‑François Roberge said that one of the factors contributing to the phenomenon was the overfunding of anglophone universities and the thousands of unilingual English-speaking young people who come and work in Montreal, for example. That apparently has an anglicizing effect on workplaces in the city of Montreal.

Would you like to comment on that subject?

[Raymond Théberge]

Certainly—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I know that…

In any case, I'll let you speak.

[Raymond Théberge]

I read the report of the Office québécois de la langue française on the situation in Montreal and Gatineau. Can that situation be explained as a result of a single factor? No, especially when it comes to young people.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Oh!

[Raymond Théberge]

Young people live in a completely different, almost virtual world. Their eyes are constantly glued to their telephones and they're subject to many influences.

What role does post-secondary education play in this phenomenon? As I said earlier, we have to determine what variable, among all those that are involved, we can address.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I see.

In that same report, the Office also stated that it had found that the federal government, in many instances, is the hardest place for Quebeckers to work in French.

Would you like to comment on that?

[Raymond Théberge]

It's an interesting question, to which I don't really have an answer.