Official Languages Committee on May 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 102 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, April 29, 2024, the committee is commencing consideration of the Annual Report 2023-24 of the Commissioner of Official Languages, submitted to the committee on Tuesday, May 7, 2024.

Before we begin, I ask all participants to review the card on the table before them. It provides instructions on how to avoid causing acoustic incidents in order to protect our interpreters' ears.

Today we have the Commissioner of Official Languages, Mr. Théberge, who is accompanied by Mr. Leduc, assistant commissioner, who is responsible for strategic orientation and external relations branch; and Mr. Wolfe, assistant commissioner, who is responsible for the compliance and enforcement branch.

This is your first appearance before our committee. Welcome.

We are starting the committee a bit late as a result of the voting.

Commissioner, I believe you have to leave us around 5:45 p.m. Is that correct?

[Raymond Théberge, Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

I have to appear before the Senate at six o'clock.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

A vote is also scheduled. So—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

The senators can wait.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's it: The senators can wait. That's obviously a joke.

We will begin.

Commissioner, you have prepared an interesting report. Under the new version of the Official Languages Act, your annual reports are now required to provide certain details.

You have five minutes for your remarks. I'm usually very strict with speaking time, but I'll be more flexible with you. Then I'll be very strict during the period of questions from members because we have a lot of questions for you.

The floor is yours.

[Raymond Théberge]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Honourable members of the committee, hello.

Before I begin, I’d like to acknowledge that the lands on which we are gathered are part of the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabeg people, an indigenous people of the Ottawa Valley.

I’m pleased to be with you today to present my 2023–2024 annual report.

Since the modernization of the Official Languages Act last June, my team has been laying the foundations for exercising my new powers. We’re now ready for action according to the timeline I unveiled when I tabled my annual report.

We therefore plan to start gradually phasing in the use of these new tools with the funding we’ve been granted in the 2024 budget.

It's hard to say, at this point, whether this amount will be enough, though, because we don't yet have all the details on the new Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act or on my new power to impose administrative monetary penalties. We'll know more once they come into force, after an order in council is issued by the Governor in Council and regulations are adopted.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Pardon me for interrupting the Commissioner's testimony, but the interpretation isn't working.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

All right.

It appears that the problem is now solved.

I apologize, Commissioner. You may continue.

[Raymond Théberge]

That said, let me be clear: My team and I are fully prepared to ensure greater respect for the public's language rights. As you probably noticed in my annual report, the 847 admissible complaints filed with my office in 2023-24 are a bit of a contrast to the very high volumes of complaints we've become accustomed to in recent years. Is this a trend that will continue over time? Unfortunately, I don't have a crystal ball to help me answer these questions with any certainty. Only time will tell.

One thing is certain, though: This decrease doesn’t mean that we need to take our foot off the gas. Au contraire! We need to keep up the momentum and build on the progress we’ve made to effect concrete, lasting changes in order to secure the future of both of our official languages across the country. I’m counting on all federal institutions to step up their efforts to meet their language obligations, including the new ones in the modernized act.

Despite the fact that regulations have yet to be made, federal institutions still have new obligations that they’re required to meet right now, including those under part VII of the act, which deals with advancing the equality of status and use of English and French.

In my annual report, I recommend that by May 31, 2025, all deputy ministers and deputy heads in the federal public service incorporate into their strategic plan a plan for ensuring full implementation of part VII of the act that draws from the road map I recently published to support federal institutions.

Among the changes introduced in the modernized act is the requirement to review the act every 10 years to ensure it remains in step with Canadian society as it evolves. However, in order for this to happen, indicators need to be developed as quickly as possible to monitor the application of the act, track any changes in the issues at stake and propose solutions in a timely fashion.

In my annual report, I therefore recommend that by June 2026, the Minister of Canadian Heritage, with the support of the President of the Treasury Board, develop and publish indicators for reviewing the provisions and operation of the act in preparation for the 10-year review in 2033.

As you’ll have noticed, this year I’m reporting on a period of change and transition in the world of official languages.

Although we still have a lot of work to do to ensure better respect for the language rights of the public and of federal public servants, I think that it’s achievable.

We need to ensure that the act is fully implemented and we need to make concrete, lasting changes to improve the state of our official languages, both in the federal public service and in Canadian society as a whole.

Thank you for your attention. I’m now ready to answer your questions, which you're welcome to ask in the official language of your choice.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner.

In the first round of questions, each of the parties will have six minutes. We will begin with the Conservatives.

Stéphanie Kusie, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here today.

It's always a pleasure to see you, Commissioner. The purpose of this committee is to preserve the French language. I think that's very important for us and for the witnesses here before the committee, which is why my first question is a bit sensitive.

Would you please give me your opinion of the way one member of this committee, Mr. Drouin, treated a witness who was here solely to defend the French language and Quebec?

Do you think Mr. Drouin acted acceptably with that witness in this committee?

[Raymond Théberge]

I don't really feel it's the Commissioner's role to express an opinion on the conduct of a committee member, although it's important to work in a respectful manner.

Both witnesses were researchers who were presenting their evidence, their tables. It's up to committee members to interpret them. One table alone doesn't represent an entire reality; it's just one piece of the puzzle. So I think it's important, when you receive that information, to absorb it and incorporate it in your thinking so you can form a clearer understanding of the situation.

As I said earlier, one table doesn't paint the entire picture. Many factors and variables have an impact on the use, usage and status of a language.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much.

So you think it's really important to respect all witnesses.

[Raymond Théberge]

I think we should always work with one another in a respectful manner. I'm going to limit my remarks to the fact that this is how I want to work and how I think you want to work.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Do you think that a person who was unable to respect a witness who was here to defend the French language in Quebec and Canada deserves to sit on this committee?

[Raymond Théberge]

I think that's a question for the committee, not the Commissioner.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Then, given the purpose of this committee, which is to promote the French language, I imagine you agree that it's really important for us to work respectfully together for both the language and the individuals who are here to defend it.

[Raymond Théberge]

Of course.

With regard to the committee's role, we're here to discuss the French language, but also both official languages. We're here to discuss both official language minority communities.

You hear from many witnesses who have a range of opinions and expertise on the matter. As I said a moment ago, it's up to committee members to absorb that information and draw the necessary conclusions.

The language issue is clearly important to us. As I said earlier, I personally want to work in a spirit of respect and collaboration.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much.

I can't imagine saying the words that member directed at someone who was here for the same purpose as I am, and as all the members of this committee are, which is to promote the French language.

Commissioner, I'm going to continue with a question regarding your report.

In it, you discuss the shared responsibilities between Treasury Board and the Department of Canadian Heritage. This is important to me because I'm the shadow minister for Treasury Board.

You said it was important once again to clarify the roles of the two ministers. What do you think causes the confusion over this sharing of powers?

[Raymond Théberge]

When we discuss the governance of the act, by which I mean its application or implementation, the important thing is to clarify who is concerned with which part of the act.

Generally speaking, the President of the Treasury Board handles the governance of the act. In part VII, we're talking about a collaboration with the Department of Canadian Heritage. Consequently, what's actually important to consider is what the word “share” means, to determine who does what.

For example, the Department of Canadian Heritage has extensive experience with the official language minority communities, having worked with those communities for many years—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 10 seconds left.

[Raymond Théberge]

Treasury Board has expertise in developing directives. It's therefore important to draft those directives in concrete terms so the duties of each department are clear.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

The next questions will be asked by Darrell Samson from the Liberal Party of Canada.

Go ahead for six minutes, Mr. Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Many thanks to the Commissioner and his team for being here with us today.

We had some good times together during consideration of Bill C-13, and we thank you for your contribution.

It's interesting that you discuss evaluation many times in your report. As a former educator, I'm really interested in that because evaluation lets you know whether you're on the right track so you can make the necessary adjustments to meet the demand.

So you've made a two-part recommendation. What do you think we should do to develop responses quickly? What tools would be necessary?