Official Languages Committee on Oct. 8th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 113 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Before we begin, I would like to share a few instructions to prevent audio and feedback incidents. I would ask all in-person participants to read the guidelines written on the updated cards on the table.

I would like to remind participants of the following points. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair. Members, please raise your hand if you wish to speak, whether participating in person or via Zoom. The clerk and I will do our best to manage the speaking order and to see the raised hands on the screen. There are many people attending today's meeting via video conference.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on April 29, 2024, the committee is commencing its study of the minority-language education continuum.

Today we have the good fortune of welcoming extraordinary people. They are the ones who will break the ice on this ambitious study that we are undertaking.

First I would like to welcome two representatives from the Association des conseils scolaires des écoles publiques de l'Ontario: Mr. Labelle, president, and Ms. Girard, executive director. They are both joining us by video conference.

I would also like to welcome two representatives from the Commission nationale des parents francophones, Ms. Anderson and Mr. Racine, who are participating in the meeting in person.

Each of your organizations has five minutes for your opening remarks. I want to be clear that I will have to interrupt you if your speaking time is up, otherwise the clerk and the analyst will scold me. I would ask you to be concise and respect the time given to you for opening remarks. In any event, you will have the opportunity to finish your remarks during the period for questions and comments that follows. You have attended committee meetings before so you know how this works.

We will begin with the Association des conseils scolaires des écoles publiques de l'Ontario. Ms. Girard or Mr. Labelle, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Denis Labelle, President, Association des conseils scolaires des écoles publiques de l'Ontario]

Good morning.

I thank the committee for inviting the Association des conseils scolaires des écoles publiques de l'Ontario, or ACEPO.

ACEPO represents the four French-language public school boards of Ontario and the Jules-Léger Centre Consortium. Together, they manage 153 schools for a total of more than 35,000 students. Among the four school systems in Ontario, the school boards that we represent obtained the best educational outcomes. The goal of our schools is to build a pluralistic francophone culture that, in addition to celebrating the diversity of origins and experiences, creates a sense of belonging. However, to achieve their ambitions, our schools need adequate resources.

As a reminder, judges unanimously ruled that students whose access to French-language education is guaranteed under article 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms have the right to institutions equivalent to those of the majority, but often that is far from the case. Under that principle, francophones have the right to a school of comparable quality to that of the anglophone schools in a given attendance boundary. The chronic underfunding of francophone school boards is limiting access to an education in French for children who have such rights and francophone newcomers, and is an obstacle to the development and consolidation of existing educational services.

There are many challenges. Language minority schools are dealing with demographic pressures, geographic constraints and limited resources. They have to reconcile the reality of a dominant anglophone environment with the mission to preserve and promote French. This double mandate cannot be met without adequate financial support.

That is why the Official Languages in Education Program plays a key role. Through that program, the provinces and territories receive funding that allows them to support key initiatives.

In the context where the majority of French-language school boards are underfunded because of provincial per-student funding formulas, for many school boards and schools, federal funding is a lifeline that allows them to offer enriching services and programs that guarantee that students will not only learn French, but will flourish in a fully francophone environment.

However, this support needs to go beyond simply maintaining the status quo. It is imperative to commit to strengthening and improving this funding in order to guarantee that each child in a minority community has access to a higher quality education, without compromise. What is more, the funding must take into account not only the rapid growth of the French-language system, but also the higher inflationary costs that are putting extra pressure on the resources that are available.

It is essential for the federal government to enforce the provinces' obligation to implement an authentic process with the French-language school boards so that the funding is used to meet the real needs of the school boards. The right to managed French-language school boards exists from one end of the country to the other.

Another crucial aspect is the funding to address the shortage of teaching staff. That funding needs to be significantly increased and be much less dependant on the centralized control of the provinces in order to provide the school boards the flexibility they need to attract qualified teachers and keep them in the community. It is about the survival of French-language education in Canada. I would even go so far as to say that in the longer term, it is about the survival of the francophonie in our beautiful country.

In conclusion, I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the fundamental importance of adequate federal funding to ensure a full continuum of services. Our elementary schools rely on early childhood services that are funded and structured to meet the needs of francophones, while the survival of our secondary schools depends on access to quality post-secondary francophone institutions that are nearby. All of these components are indispensable to the vitality and survival of the Canadian francophonie. Without financial support from the federal government, our efforts for ensuring an education in French from early childhood to adulthood would be seriously compromised, which would threaten not only the quality of teaching, but also the future of francophone culture and identity.

We still have a long way to go, but preserving and encouraging the French language is everyone's business.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Labelle.

Now we will hear from the Commission nationale des parents francophones.

Mr. Racine or Ms. Anderson, you have five minutes.

[Gillian Anderson, President, Commission nationale des parents francophones]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen, good morning.

My name is Gillian Anderson and I am a proud francophone parent from the St. Albert region in Alberta. I am also president of the Commission nationale des parents francophones, or CNPF.

Thank you for inviting CNPF to speak to the study on the minority-language education continuum.

Although CNPF works with all parents on the education continuum, it has done a lot of work on early childhood education over the past few decades. We are here today to talk to you on behalf of the parents of 141,000 children aged 0 to 4 who, according to the recent census, have the right to education in French in a minority setting under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The serious shortage of child care spaces in French and the long waiting lists force parents to make choices that have serious consequences: They either register their child for English child care, or they keep their child at home. That agonizing decision is made at the most critical time in their child's development. It is during early childhood that language and a sense of identity develops.

Many parents tell us that their children speak only English after attending an anglophone child care facility even if both parents are francophones, as is often the case. Many parents choose to register their children at an anglophone school to ensure their scholastic success, out of fear that they will not be able to adapt to a francophone school. Imagine how the parents feel: They feel like they failed to pass down French to their children.

In all, 141,635 children have the right to education in French in a minority setting, but less than 20% of parents manage to place their children in francophone child care. In other words, 80% of parents, which represents thousands of parents, have no other option than to place their children in anglophone child care.

Why this lack of early childhood services in French? Essentially, the biggest part of the problem is the agreements concluded with the provinces and territories under the national child care program. These agreements include language clauses, but the provincial and territorial action plans are vague and include very little access to child care in French. For example, there are situations like the one in Alberta, where only 19 of the 1,500 new child care spaces have been allocated to the francophone community.

Early childhood is the gateway to education in French for the entire continuum of education. The fact is that the lack of child care services contributes directly to the assimilation of our francophones. It is crucial to act quickly to expand access to early childhood services in the minority language in Canada and to ensure their quality to promote a positive impact on the language and social development of children.

We also think it is essential for the francophone child care services in minority communities to benefit from much more stable, long-term funding to ensure their sustainability and growth.

Lastly, I would like to take a bit of time to say a few words about the rest of the continuum of education.

We would like to support all the stakeholders who come here to tell you how much the continuum in French is underfunded in Canada.

What is more, we strongly believe it is essential to offer more support to the parents in the entire continuum of education. In our communities, two out of three francophone children come from exogamous families, and parents have intense debates on whether or not to continue educating their children in French. These parents need a lot more support. To that end, more substantial funding needs to be given under the Official Languages in Education Program in Alberta.

We also need to support the parents when it comes time to choose a French-language post-secondary institution. Parents are sorely lacking information to properly support their young people at this important stage of the continuum.

The lack of early childhood services in French and the lack of support for parents is a barrier to exercising the constitutional right to education in a French minority community. As such, this constitutes a threat to the future vitality of francophone minority communities. Action is urgently needed.

Thank you very much for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Anderson.

Perhaps I should have made it clear that Ms. Anderson is the president of the Commission nationale des parents francophones, while Mr. Racine is the executive director.

Denis Labelle is the president of the Association des conseils scolaires des écoles publiques de l'Ontario, while Ms. Girard is the executive director.

For anyone not yet familiar with the committee, I should point out that, in the first round of questions, each political party will have six minutes to ask questions and listen to the answers.

Ms. Gladu can start.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to welcome all the witnesses here today.

My first question is for Mr. Labelle.

You spoke about the need to uphold the rights accorded to francophones under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. You also talked about the teacher shortage. Can the federal government take any other steps to improve the situation for francophone post‑secondary institutions?

[Denis Labelle]

If funding were available, we would like to narrow the gap in terms of capital investments. Some areas lack schools. This is especially true in northern Ontario, where I live. That's the first step.

We also need adequate funding to bring in teachers. We're currently struggling to cope with a shortage. We lose 1,000 teachers a year, but only 500 students graduate from our universities with teaching degrees. In Ontario, three institutions provide a French‑language teaching program: Laurentian University in Sudbury, the University of Ottawa and the Université de l'Ontario français in Toronto. Only 500 students a year graduate with a teaching degree. This means that we're short 500 teachers every year.

Of course, any surpluses would help us narrow the gap in the number of French‑language schools in Ontario.

Ms. Girard can chime in if she wishes to do so.

[Isabelle Girard, Executive Director, Association des conseils scolaires des écoles publiques de l'Ontario]

Yes, thank you.

I think that you clearly established ACEPO's two main priorities.

I also believe that funding is vital to address the teacher shortage. One of our challenges is the lack of spots in universities. With the exception of the Université de l'Ontario français, funding isn't guaranteed for French‑language spots in bilingual universities. This means, for example, that the University of Ottawa and Laurentian University can decide how to allocate their funding. They receive funding, but spots aren't guaranteed for French‑language students. A portion of the funding given to faculties of education must be allocated specifically to French‑language education students. This money must stay in French‑language training.

There should also be funding for teacher training for small cohorts. As Mr. Labelle said, few graduates go on to become secondary school teachers. These training courses aren't provided because the cohorts are so small. There are creative ways to get around this issue, but they require funding and support from our governments.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

In my constituency, the situation is similar. We have five or six schools for 8,000 francophones or francophiles. There are many applications, but not enough available spots.

My second question is for Ms. Anderson.

Based on your experience, what steps would you suggest that the government take?

[Gillian Anderson]

In terms of early childhood, it really comes down to improving provincial and territorial agreements to ensure that they include language clauses for our francophones. It currently depends on the party in power and this changes every four years or so. We need stronger agreements that specifically focus on francophones.

Mr. Racine may want to comment.

[Jean-Luc Racine, Executive Director, Commission nationale des parents francophones]

The early childhood sector currently lacks structural funding. For the past two years, the early childhood sector in minority communities hasn't received any funding. Day care centres are run without any form of government support. Opportunities with British Columbia have recently opened up. Aside from that, we have absolutely no financial support.

A program has just been announced. We hope to receive funding. However, in March it will have been two years since any funding was allocated to the early childhood sector in francophone minority communities.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

As you said, only 20% of rights holders manage to access these services.

You also said that the provincial agreements were weak. Could you elaborate?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 30 seconds to do so.

[Jean-Luc Racine]

Yes. The agreements include language clauses. However, the issue lies with the provincial action plans. When we want to know how these clauses apply, we take a look at the action plans. We find that they don't contain anything in this area. Only Manitoba has announced a small amount of funding. In all other cases, the action plans don't contain anything specifically for francophones in minority communities. We know this because we studied them. I challenge you to find anything of this nature. The funding is piecemeal. We don't know what will happen. That's our reality.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Racine.

I didn't want to interrupt Ms. Gladu earlier for this, but I would like to make a comment, Mr. Racine. You talked about the upcoming funding. However, you didn't specify whether it would come from the province or the federal government. You know your files well. We assume that it will come from the province.

[Jean-Luc Racine]

No. It will come from the federal government.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

It would be good idea to specify this next time, so that we know exactly what you're referring to. We don't have as much expertise as you do.

Speaking of expertise, the next questions will be asked by an expert in the field.

Mr. Samson, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank my colleagues for being here today.

I have so many questions that I don't know where to start. My team told me not to provide too much background information. However, I want to make one point before I ask my questions.

Bill C‑13 supported the recognition of early childhood and post‑secondary education in the minority language. This is a first in Canadian history. There had never been any references to it before. When this issue was raised, the governments said that section 23 of the charter didn't include early childhood and post‑secondary education at all. For the first time in Canadian history, we can find these references. I think that the bill refers to post‑secondary education four times. Early childhood education comes up in part 1 of the bill. It's in proposed subsections 41(3), 41(6) and 93.1(1.2) of the Official Languages Act, which talk about indicators and measures.

For the first time, you have power in your tool box. That's remarkable. It's all down to your hard work.

In reality, the approach in Canada for the past 50 years was a recipe for failure. It was impossible to succeed. However, we didn't talk about it because we lacked the power. Today, we have that power and we must talk about it. The current and future governments must give you substantial support.

That said, I'll now ask some quick questions.

My first question is quite specific. Does the addition of day care spots for $10 help parents of francophone children in minority communities in Canada?

[Jean-Luc Racine]

This amount certainly helps them. However, there are still major barriers. For example, it's hard to access day care spots. Let me give you an example. In British Columbia, to access $10 day care spots, 70% of the spots must be filled. The day cares are often small. If you have three educators and lose one, you fall below the 70% mark and you're no longer eligible for $10 day care spots.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I want to make sure that I understand. The $10 day care spots help the people who are already in the system if they meet the criteria.

[Jean-Luc Racine]

Yes. Exactly.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

The Senate proposed an amendment to Bill C‑35 to strengthen the wording. The House then considered and passed this amendment. This is all down to your hard work. You did your job even though you didn't have any power. You now have that power. Please continue your work, because we need you.

Now that we have stronger wording for francophone day care centres, I assume that this helps you. Can you explain how?

[Jean-Luc Racine]

This will certainly help us. Bill C‑35 ensures long‑term funding for minority communities. That's a plus. Of course, this legislation must now be put into practice and the funding must follow suit. That's our hope.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Good.

The first step was to ensure recognition.

[Jean-Luc Racine]

Yes.