Official Languages Committee on Oct. 8th, 2024

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Overall, it's 20%.

[Jean-Luc Racine]

Yes. Exactly.

The fact remains that we have much less capacity to meet demand. Let me give you an example. The Association francophone à l'éducation des services à l'enfance de l'Ontario, or AFESEO, currently oversees about 25 day care centres in different parts of Ontario. The occupancy rate for the available spots in these centres is around 55%. In other words, despite having the necessary licences, these centres can't provide 45% of the available spots. This is partly because of the labour shortage. Many of these centres are also located in remote areas, which makes it challenging to maximize the ratios.

We're talking about an occupancy rate of around 55%. However, I don't have the data to show what percentage of rights holders manage to access these services. If we ever get the future funding, we can obtain all the data needed to really understand the situation. However, I can tell you that the figure for the whole country is less than 20%.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

The percentage is as low as 20%. However, as you said earlier, no funding is provided by the provincial governments. How can you explain this?

[Jean-Luc Racine]

There are small exceptions here and there. I spoke about British Columbia. We received some good news on that front recently. However, to some extent, francophones and anglophones receive funding in the same way. Parents have access to $10 day care, but the difference comes down to this. If a parent wants to enrol their child in a specific anglophone day care, but no spots are available, that parent will turn to another anglophone day care. We don't have that luxury. If a francophone day care centre doesn't have space, the parents must enrol their child in an anglophone day care. We need to build our structure.

I referred to AFESEO, which oversees 25 day care centres. These centres are run by parent committees. Only four of these 25 day cares are financially viable. In all the other cases, the parents ended up saying that they couldn't handle it any more and asking others to take over and run the centres. The reality is that these day cares are located in remote areas, are struggling to maintain ratios and aren't financially viable. We're losing money. However, since four of these centres are viable, we're counting on them to help the others. That said, not a penny comes from the government. Everything comes from the operations. That's how we get the job done.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It's unbelievable.

[Jean-Luc Racine]

Therein lies the problem. With the exception of British Columbia now, none of the provinces recognize the need for what we call shared resource management to ensure greater effectiveness. That's the key to success.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Racine.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Julian, welcome to the committee. You have the floor for six minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I'm happy to be here, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here.

You spoke about the importance of French‑language services. We know perfectly well that the lack of French‑language services in education, day cares, public schools and universities plays a major role in assimilation. That's exactly why francophone parents have fought so hard for years to secure spots in these systems. Your comments on this topic are important.

I'll turn to you, Mr. Racine and Ms. Anderson, to talk about day cares. Do you know how many bilingual or francophone day cares are located outside Quebec?

[Jean-Luc Racine]

There are around 750 day care facilities. However, the number varies considerably. Some day cares close and others open. I would say that the number is between 700 and 750. As I said, we're hoping to receive funding that will help us obtain more tangible data. In any case, the number of day care centres is currently around 700 or 750.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

We're talking about day care centres outside Quebec. Is that right?

[Jean-Luc Racine]

Yes, outside Quebec. We depend heavily on strictly French‑speaking day care centres.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Excuse me, Mr. Julian. I would like to make a brief comment. It won't be included in your speaking time.

Mr. Racine, you said that your organization is waiting for funding. We're not as familiar with the file as you are. Can you elaborate on this?

[Jean-Luc Racine]

Yes. We're waiting for funding from Employment and Social Development Canada. A call for proposals is under way. We're talking about $47.7 million in funding here. This was announced in the March 2023 action plan. Since then, we've been waiting. Next March, two years will have passed.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you.

Good question, Mr. Chair.

Roughly speaking, we're talking about 750 day care centres. Can we find out how much money the federal government is paying to support this system?

[Jean-Luc Racine]

Funding comes from the federal government and goes to the provinces. Right now, it's mostly for $10‑a‑day day care. Sometimes, subsidies are available, but other times, the process is more challenging. Ontario is a good example, because all the funding goes through the municipalities. You know how many municipalities there can be in Ontario. We need to approach each municipality and ask them how many spots are allocated to francophones and how many francophone parents can benefit from a subsidized day care spot at $10 a day for their child.

Moreover, the governments often think that, because a spot has been found in an anglophone day care for a francophone family, the job is done. Some tell us that, once a child has been placed in a day care, the issue is resolved. They don't make any distinction between the two languages. They don't even see the importance of placing a francophone child in a francophone day care rather than in an anglophone centre.

We prefer unilingual French‑speaking day care centres. Placing francophone children in anglophone day cares leads to assimilation rather than the preservation of the French language.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you.

I would now like to ask Mr. Labelle and Ms. Girard a question.

You said that there were about 260,000 francophone rights holders, but only 150,000 spaces in francophone schools. Is this gap between needs and available spaces due to a lack of staff or a lack of funding?

[Isabelle Girard]

I think it's both.

When you listen to what our early childhood colleagues are saying and you also take into account what we're experiencing on our side, it quickly becomes obvious that the common factor is the shortage of French-language staff. Unfortunately, until that problem is addressed, we will not be able to take advantage of the many other opportunities that could be available to us.

The good news is that many of the solutions can apply to educators as well as teachers, not to mention mental health workers, for example. Indeed, the shortage is affecting many other sectors. We have to solve this problem and devote significant resources to it, because it has an impact on all the other great measures we can implement, particularly through the OLEP.

As far as funding is concerned, the issue for French-language public school boards is the number of schools. We know that in many regions of our province, people don't have access to a French-language public school. So parents often have no other option than to put their child in an immersion school. It's always the reasonable parent's test: faced with the choice of sending their child to a nearby school in the neighbourhood, even though it's an English school or an immersion school, or registering them in a French-language school that requires a one‑hour or one-and-a-half-hour bus ride, the reasonable parent sometimes has to choose the first option, unfortunately.

Those are the big challenges we're still facing. That is why we are fighting every day for these key elements.

In my opinion, it is imperative to focus on finding solutions, both for educators and teachers. The good news is that the federal government also has a big role to play, of course, because the solutions lie in large part in immigration, recognizing foreign credentials and welcoming newcomers.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Girard.

Thank you very much, Mr. Julian.

I now give the floor for five minutes to Mr. Godin, who is also the committee's first vice‑chair.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the representatives of the Commission nationale des parents francophones for being with us in person. I would also like to thank the representatives of the Association des conseils scolaires des écoles publiques de l'Ontario for making themselves available to take part in the meeting by video conference.

I have three comments I'd like to make.

First, when I arrived at the Standing Committee on Official Languages, I realized that the problem was not a lack of clients, but a lack of will on the part of the authorities to provide services to these clients. I used to work in the private sector. There is enormous potential for a solid client base, but we are not going to go after it, we are not going to encourage growth, we are not going to do anything. That's my first comment.

Second, I find it odd that the future of French in Canada depends on the stubbornness of parents. This is odd. We are making our French language vulnerable. If parents have a tendency to choose the closest school, our language will simply be abandoned, and that worries me a lot.

Third, I would like to come back to what my colleague Mr. Samson said. Earlier, he talked about Bill C‑35, to which the Senate proposed an amendment. I would like to remind him that you are the architects who allowed us, the Conservative Party of Canada, to table amendments to ensure that elements of the Official Languages Act would be included in Bill C‑35. I myself went to the committee responsible for studying Bill C‑35 to propose these amendments. Hey presto, the amendments were made.

Now, I would like your help. I can see that the provinces are not necessarily allies. You mentioned British Columbia and Manitoba, who are aware of the issue. That said, can you tell us what needs to be done so that the federal government can impose measures while respecting provincial and territorial jurisdictions? Help us to help you. We are on the same wavelength and we have the same objective.

I'd like to hear from Mr. Racine and Ms. Anderson first.

[Gillian Anderson]

I'll start, and then I'll ask Mr. Racine to add his comments.

There should be clauses that can apply in each of the territories and provinces. It's that simple. Then there should be someone at the bargaining table to ensure that the clauses are respected in all territories and provinces.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So it's down a lack of will.

[Gillian Anderson]

Absolutely.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Perhaps it's out of ignorance, by which I mean that the provinces and territories aren't aware of the consequences. I won't make any accusations. Whatever the case may be, there is a lack of will.

What you're telling me is that this should be included in very specific clauses in federal-provincial agreements.

[Gillian Anderson]

Absolutely.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Racine, any additional comments?