Official Languages Committee on Oct. 29th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We started the meeting with Statistics Canada representatives. Mr. Beaulieu then mentioned that he would have a motion to move. Pursuant to the Standing Orders, everyone is free to use their speaking time as they see fit. I can't stop that.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

As much as I didn't like it as chair, I would have to live with the rules as they are. At the last minute in a public meeting, if any of the members who have the floor decide to move a motion or speak to it, I can't interrupt them. I have to do my job as chair to the best of my ability.

Right now, we're wasting valuable time. I know everyone has good questions. Hold on, maybe I misspoke. Let's say instead that we're wasting valuable time with the esteemed witnesses from Statistics Canada. I would like us to hear from them, if possible.

Is it the will of the committee to let them begin their testimony?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'll extend the first part of the meeting a bit so that we have more or less an hour with the witnesses.

Ms. Bégin, you have a firm five minutes for your presentation. I'm very strict with everyone's speaking time so that committee members can ask as many questions as possible.

You can begin.

[Josée Bégin]

Thank you.

Committee members and Mr. Chair, thank you for this opportunity to contribute to your work on the minority official language education continuum.

As the national statistical agency, Statistics Canada collects and disseminates statistical information to support the evidence‑based planning and implementation of minority official language education programs across the country. The information can come from the census of population, administrative sources or surveys.

In 2021, questions on instruction in English in Quebec and French in Canada outside Quebec at the primary and secondary levels were added to the census to complement the existing questions on education and on different language characteristics of the population. These new questions helped determine that close to 900,000 children are eligible for instruction in the minority official language based on the criteria set out in section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The data helped to produce a detailed geographical distribution of these children and to determine the proportion of children who have already attended a minority language school.

According to 2021 census data, roughly 300,000 eligible children were living in Quebec and 350,000 in Ontario. However, New Brunswick had the highest proportion of eligible children, at 36%. The results also revealed that, in Quebec, about three‑quarters of eligible school‑aged children were attending or had attended a minority language school in Canada. This compares with just under two‑thirds in Canada outside Quebec.

The census is a cornerstone of the data ecosystem that Statistics Canada is currently developing on children eligible for instruction in the minority official language. Given that the census paints a portrait of members of the same household on census day, Statistics Canada conducted an additional study. This study showed that another estimated 90,000 children are eligible on account of family members who live in other households, such as children in shared custody.

The data ecosystem also includes administrative data sources that shed more light on this population. For example, the elementary and secondary education survey is used to track the number of annual enrolments in minority-language programs in Canada. One finding from this survey is that 260,000 children and teenagers were in a minority-language education program in Canada during the 2022-23 school year.

Meanwhile, the open database of educational facilities includes information on the schools that offer minority-language programs. Combining this database with census data revealed that 87% of eligible children in Canada live less than 10 kilometres from a minority school. The proximity of minority schools, along with the language spoken at home by parents, is one of the factors associated with instruction of eligible children in the minority official language.

The first results from the survey on the official-language minority population, which was conducted in 2022, will soon be added to the data ecosystem on children eligible for instruction in the minority official language. The data from the survey will cast light on parents' education intentions for their eligible children and the reasons for their choice of language of instruction.

The survey also included many questions that will provide information on the entire school path from day care to post-secondary, and on various other aspects of the situation of official-language minorities.

The range of Statistics Canada data that we feel would benefit your work also includes the Canadian survey on the provision of child care services, which has a question on the language of the services offered; the postsecondary student information system, which can be combined with census data to determine the language of graduates; and the national graduates survey. Lastly, please note that, under the new action plan for official languages, we're working on assessing the feasibility of producing projections of the population of children eligible for instruction in the minority official language.

The information that Statistics Canada produces is available in different formats, such as analyses, tables, maps and other visual tools. Statistics Canada's recent analyses on this topic examined the characteristics of children eligible for instruction in the minority official language; the connection among language of instruction, bilingualism and the languages used at work; and enrolment in immersion programs in Canada outside Quebec.

In short, Statistics Canada already has a number of sources of information and analyses on the different levels of minority language education. It's actively working on adding to the data ecosystem to provide decision‑makers and stakeholders with evidence‑based data.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Bégin.

We're starting the first round of questions and answers. Each political group will have six minutes. We'll start with the Conservative Party, represented by the committee's first vice‑chair.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here this morning, Ms. Bégin and Mr. Caron‑Malenfant. Your participation matters. You play a major role in counting the number of rights holder students.

From 1982 to 2021, the census significantly underestimated the number of children eligible for French‑language schools outside Quebec and failed to count any children eligible for English‑language schools in Quebec. In Ontario, 41% of children of rights holders didn't have access to French‑language schools.

Do you think that these under‑estimates have had a negative impact on francophone minority communities in Canada?

[Éric Caron-Malenfant, Assistant Director, Centre for Demography, Statistics Canada]

Good question.

Before the 2021 census, we asked the entire population a question on mother tongue, which is one of the criteria set out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. However, we didn't have any information on the other criteria. Since 2021, we've been asking new questions on language of instruction. These questions help to provide a full and detailed picture of the population of children eligible for instruction in the minority official language.

We also have other sources of enrolment data, for example. For some time now, we've been collecting data each year on enrolment in minority‑language programs in Canada outside Quebec. We had already noted the trends along these lines in the past. However, since the 2021 census, we've been collecting information in much greater detail.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Caron‑Malenfant.

You're telling me that, since the 2021 census, you've had a much more representative picture of reality. I want to acknowledge the work done by the Standing Committee on Official Languages in 2019‑20. It worked hard to convince Statistics Canada to include this question in the census.

You must know that a bill amending the Official Languages Act was passed in June 2023. Unfortunately, Canadian Heritage officials, with the complicity of the government, made sure that Statistics Canada's obligation to conduct a count wasn't clearly written into the bill. Yet you showed the value of this count in the 2021 census, because it provided a far more representative picture of reality.

How do you explain Canadian Heritage's position that the next census in 2031 should provide estimates rather than a count?

[Josée Bégin]

In accordance with Statistics Canada's position, we can't comment on the intentions of our colleagues in other departments.

However, I can tell you that each census is followed by a period of consultations on the content and questions asked. These consultations are conducted both with census data users and with policy‑makers, including our colleagues in the federal and provincial governments. Tests are then carried out to try out new content or make changes to census content.

Statistics Canada has been doing this for the past two years. We conducted two census tests, one in May and one that just ended in September. These tests will lead to analyses to help us determine the content of the next census.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You're telling me that the count may be part of the next census, but it isn't certain yet. Some uncertainty remains. Is that right?

[Josée Bégin]

I said that census tests were carried out. The content of these tests is available on the Statistics Canada website. For the tests, we did add questions about children eligible for minority‑language instruction. These questions were tested.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Bégin.

In your remarks, you talked about studies that you carried out and that you combined with the census. This further established the true picture of the situation of official language minority communities in Canada. That's my understanding. Is that right?

[Josée Bégin]

As with any analysis, combining information with the census is a—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Can you give me a yes or no answer?

[Josée Bégin]

Yes. It's a rich source of information.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Bégin. You can understand that my time is limited.

How much does it cost to add a question to the census?

I'll give you the answer. It's $7 million. Statistics Canada has already answered my question.

Is it worth the $7 million to add this question to the census to determine the situation of rights holders? Don't francophones and anglophones in minority communities deserve this in order to maintain a bilingual country?

Are all the stakeholders who benefit from the results paying $7 million to include these questions in the census?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 15 seconds left for an answer.

[Josée Bégin]

As I explained, our approach is to determine content according to a frame of reference based on the needs of Canadians and policy‑makers. It isn't necessarily related to the cost of a specific question.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Bégin.

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

I'll now give the floor for six minutes to Mr. Samson from the Liberal Party.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

I'll ask a few quick questions.

What's the difference between the 2021 census and previous censuses in terms of results? What have these questions really given to the people?

[Éric Caron-Malenfant]

The new questions concerned the language of instruction—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I know that, but what were the results? Sorry to interrupt, but I'm interested only in the results.

[Éric Caron-Malenfant]

We could obtain, through the census, information on the population eligible under the three criteria set out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This includes language of instruction.