Official Languages Committee on Nov. 19th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, Mr. Lightbound asked for unanimous consent. I think we first need to take a position on this and close the debate.

So I'm asking you—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I agreed to change the speaking order, at Mr. Iacono's request.

Mr. Iacono will be the last speaker. After that, we will—

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Chair, I withdraw my request for unanimous consent.

Having said that, after Mr. Iacono, I—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Okay. That's perfect.

I think everyone agrees to withdraw the motion.

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

As I was saying, this isn't the first time the Conservatives have shown a lack of respect for the French language, either in the House of Commons or in parliamentary committees. I hope there won't be a fourth time.

I'm a little disappointed to see that, at these three events, not a single Conservative member from Quebec rose to denounce his colleagues' comments about the French language and about Canadians who speak French.

I'm happy with the rest.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Lightbound is asking for the motion to be withdrawn. Does he have unanimous consent?

Mr. Lightbound, do you want to pick up—

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I move to withdraw the unanimous consent motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I see Mrs. Shanahan on the screen and everyone around the table. Everyone seems to agree on that. That's perfect.

(Motion withdrawn)

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We will now begin—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

On a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I would like to seek unanimous consent so that our witnesses have as much time as possible to answer our questions. I propose that we devote a full hour to their testimony. I think it's important to hear from the organizations.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Vice‑Chair. You took the words right out of my mouth. I was just going to allude to that.

That's the technical sidebar.

Witnesses, you have a full hour.

We have two hours for our committee meeting, but we have some committee business to do in camera. However, before that, we can give the witnesses a full hour.

We now have Basile Dorion, former school trustee, as an individual. From Canadian Parents for French, we have Nicole Thibault, executive director, and Mr. Visweswaran, director of public affairs and policy.

I think this is the first time you've appeared before the Standing Committee on Official Languages. The way we operate is that we give each witness or group five minutes to make their opening statement. So there will be five minutes for Mr. Dorion and five minutes for Canadian Parents for French. Then there will be a series of questions from members of the various political parties.

We'll start with Mr. Dorion. I'm very strict about speaking time because the stricter I am, the more questions members will have.

Mr. Dorion, please go ahead. I'll give you five minutes for your opening remarks. If you run out of time, you can use the question round to add what you won't have time to say.

[Basile Dorion, Former School Counsellor, As an Individual]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee and support staff, thank you for giving me the opportunity to share my experience, my observations and, above all, my very great concern about French as a first language and the language of use, what I call “natural French”.

I must admit that I find it very difficult to present the scope of the complex subject of the state of the French language in just five minutes, so I hope you will ask me questions. I also want to say that I'm going to speak to you from the heart and with a lot of emotion. I admit that what I'm about to say won't always be politically correct; it may even be crude at times.

Since 1934, my family has lived on the shores of Georgian Bay, Ontario, in the Lafontaine region. I'm Métis and French Canadian. We have always lived in French, at home and in the community, even though we were surrounded by anglophones. I've always spoken French to my children, even though my marriage is mixed. I'm very fortunate that my wife supports everything I do.

For much of my life, I worked to defend French and my culture in a very minority environment. It's not easy, but I continue to do so with determination.

I was a school board trustee for 21 years, before the French school boards arrived. I was the spokesperson and coordinator during the school crisis in Penetanguishene in 1979, when we had to fight to get our French high school. We finally got it, after multiple protests and litigation. At the same time, I also worked as a community development officer and executive director of the Centre d'activités françaises, our cultural centre, now called La Clé d'la Baie.

Even though French as a second language is rarely used, it seems to be doing quite well. My two biggest concerns are the alarming decline of French as the language of use and the fact that children who already speak French when they arrive at school are disadvantaged by French school boards because they are in a predominantly anglophone context.

I could give you hundreds of examples of how fewer and fewer people have French as their natural language. For example, I used to be able to count 37 houses on my row, or in my “concession”, as we say back home, where French was always spoken at home. There were only one or two where people didn't speak French. Now, 50 years later, it's exactly the opposite: of those 37 houses, there are barely two or three where French is still spoken.

I also see it in my own family, in my community and in the people around me. We've lost our pride in being francophone. People now think that speaking French in public or at home is bad manners. The church told us that we had to be very polite to those who didn't understand French. As a result, if an English-speaking person is 50 feet away from us, we shouldn't offend them. Sometimes, out of habit or laziness, we forget that the English speaker isn't there any more, and we continue to speak in English. French in a minority setting has become a second language, not a natural one. If it hasn't become one yet, it's rapidly becoming one.

Our French school boards, along with the homes, have a major role to play, and they have an important responsibility to preserve French as a first language or language used. However, I think French school boards are too preoccupied with the numbers, that is to say the subsidies. It's much more profitable to have predominantly anglophone students in our French-language schools, rather than predominantly francophone students.

At one time, they were referred to as schoolchildren. Then we got more sophisticated and called them pupils. Today, school boards call them “enrolments”. It doesn't sound very humane; it seems to be more about money.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 10 seconds left, Mr. Dorion.

[Basile Dorion]

I would go so far as to say that our French school boards are too poor to take proactive measures, because they're afraid of offending and losing the predominantly anglophone clientele.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Dorion.

You will be able to provide more information as the questions are put to you. Your five minutes is already up.

I don't know if it's Ms. Thibault or Mr. Visweswaran who will be speaking.

Ms. Thibault, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Nicole Thibault, Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Parents for French]

I will be speaking.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for inviting us to appear before you today.

I am the CEO of Canadian Parents for French, CPF, a national network. I will be sharing my time with Ahdithya.

Founded in 1977, Canadian Parents for French has long been dedicated to supporting bilingualism in Canada, recognizing the importance of building allies to support the francophonie. Our mission is to promote French language learning through programs, resources and advocacy for anglophones and allophones across the country.

We're represented by branches and offices nationwide that advocate for equitable access to French second language programs, and this includes French immersion. Through initiatives such as Concours d'art oratoire, le tutorat virtuel and our virtual career fair, CPF has addressed community needs for over 50 years in every province and every territory. These programs help Canadian youth gain valuable language skills, benefiting their personal and professional lives and enhancing the social and economic prosperity of our country. We recognize the importance of studying the full continuum of education over the lifespan of each Canadian.

For early childhood, it's crucial for cognitive, emotional, social and language development. While early French language learning is supported in a francophone school system or with exogamous families, it's not emphasized enough in early childhood programs for the majority of the population. We believe that, to normalize bilingualism in Canada, we must start early. CPF advocates for English-speaking child care providers to offer a bilingual program to ensure early exposure to parents so that they will enrol their children in French immersion kindergarten for the best learning experience.

CPF created the successful French Footprints pilot that trains English-speaking practitioners to integrate French into their everyday routines. This program has been highly successful, benefiting practitioners and families. Unfortunately, the funding has not yet been received to continue to pursue this innovative work.

For us, the quality and accessibility of French as a second language programs are paramount. French as a second language programs in Canada have grown significantly. More than 450,000 students enrol every year, which is a 40% increase in 20 years.

This increase reflects a growing interest in learning French, particularly among immigrant families, who wish to provide their children with opportunities in both official languages, English and French.

According to Canadian Parents for French, if more spaces were made available, approximately 100,000 additional students could enrol in immersion programs starting tomorrow. However, access to these programs is restricted due to certain geographic barriers and limited resources for English school boards.

People who submit applications are often denied. Only 15% of Canadian youth are enrolled in immersion. That means that 85% of students don't have that opportunity, and that concerns me, in 2024, in a country that calls itself officially bilingual.

Of course, the federal government must review funding for official languages programs in education. We need to support investment and guarantee accessible and equitable second-language education across the country.

We note that the major English school boards, such as those in Toronto, Ottawa, Calgary and Vancouver, will not appear before your committee. However, despite these challenges, we hope you will think of the Peel District School Board, which has turned away nearly 7,000 registrations over the past 10 years.

[Ahdithya Visweswaran, Director, Advocacy and Public Policy, Canadian Parents for French]

Mr. Chair, this exclusion isn't just a statistic.

Every year, 700 talented young people from the greater Toronto area cannot aspire to become Supreme Court justices, governors general or thought leaders in Canadian society. Denying them these opportunities limits their individual potential.

As a French immersion graduate myself, I firmly believe in its value. It was through this gift that I was able to access other enriching opportunities that wouldn't have been available if I hadn't spoken both official languages. Limiting access to the possibility of becoming bilingual also creates barriers to integration in all spheres of Canadian society. This makes our institutions unrepresentative of Canadian diversity and feeds the discourse of the two solitudes.

We'll now let you ask us questions so that we can continue.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Dorion, Ms. Thibault and Mr. Visweswaran.

There will be a first round, during which each political party will be able to ask you questions that you can answer. It will be about six minutes each. As always, we're going to start with the Conservatives. Mr. Godin, who is the first vice-chair of this committee, will have the honour of breaking the ice.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us this morning. It's always nice to meet in person. We particularly appreciate it, given what we've been through.

I will first address the representatives of Canadian Parents for French.

You said—this is stimulating for us—that there were a lot of applications from young people who wanted to study in French. So the clientele is there.

Since our time is very limited, could you quickly give us an explanation that will help us understand the difference between immersion, which seems to be for anglophones, and education in French for rights holders?

Can you explain that to us, given that we're talking about the education continuum, from early childhood to post-secondary? There's been a request for us to do a study on immersion at a later date, but I would first like to hear what you have to tell us about this issue.

[Nicole Thibault]

It's important to understand that these are two completely different paths. We have French school boards, which are intended for francophones. There's a path to follow. These people must have some knowledge of French at the outset. Mr. Dorion mentioned that we were concerned about the quality of what was offered when people who didn't necessarily have the same level of French were integrated into the system.

I'm going to talk about my field, immersion. The Toronto District School Board and the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board, which are English school boards, offer a program in English, so one path, as well as core French. So there's 30 or 40 minutes of French a day. We are also offering another path, French immersion. That means that, starting in kindergarten, the days take place in English and French equally. In the first year, 80% of the day is spent in French and 20% in English.

The proportion increases over the years, until grades four and five, when the proportion is 50% on both sides. At the secondary level, about 25% of courses are in French.

Since these students started using French very early, they passed a threshold that allows them to converse, to communicate in French. In addition, the various subjects make it possible to learn that language.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you for that clarification, Ms. Thibault.

What happens then at the post-secondary level?

[Nicole Thibault]

At that level, things happen in the same environments.

I'll let Mr. Visweswaran speak to that.