Official Languages Committee on Nov. 19th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Boulerice. You had about six minutes and 15 seconds.

We'll move on to another round of questions. This time, the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party will have five‑minute rounds.

We'll start with Mr. Dalton, a Franco‑Albertan by birth.

Mr. Dalton, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you all for your remarks.

I also want to thank the witnesses.

I'm a Franco‑Albertan living in British Columbia. I have two daughters and a son, but I'll talk about my daughters. One of them was enrolled in an immersion program. It went well and she continued to study in French at the post‑secondary level. However, my other daughter wasn't able to learn French. She was the 42nd student to register for the 40 places available. We had the right to send our children to a school in the French school board. However, I didn't really consider this possibility. The school was an hour's bus ride away, whereas the immersion school was three minutes away.

Do you think that families in similar situations should have the right to send their children to an immersion school?

[Nicole Thibault]

Of course, your first choice would have been the French school, if it were within a reasonable distance. However, parents must make choices for many reasons. We also have exogamous families made up of one rights holder and one non‑rights holder. They each have 50% of the decision‑making power.

In my opinion, every Canadian should have guaranteed access to immersion. The goal of Canadian Parents for French is to ensure that Canadians have access to the best possible programs. It may not be easy to guarantee access, from a legal perspective. However, I think that we're giving you this challenge for the next modernization of the Official Languages Act—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That will be 10 years from now.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

We wanted it to take place every five years.

[Nicole Thibault]

Immigration is another issue. Is it possible to guarantee newcomers access to immersion programs? I think that it's possible. We hope to see this implemented over the coming years.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Dorion, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I'm also Métis, and my mother is French‑Canadian.

I completely agree that children should speak French in French school board schools. That's a real challenge. However, I would like you to talk about another challenge. The population and the number of children are decreasing. If these schools are only for children who already speak French, we won't have as many schools and we won't be able to provide programs to bring in children. Do you agree?

[Basile Dorion]

Immersion schools don't compete with French school boards. It's the other way around. The French school boards are competing with the immersion system because they want the money. In my opinion, there isn't a shortage of teachers. Instead, French schools have a surplus of students who perhaps should be in immersion.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you.

[Basile Dorion]

I'm all for immersion programs. However, we're talking about two completely different worlds. One belongs to a people with a culture in their blood, and the other has an advantage—

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Dorion.

I have just a few seconds left. I would like to ask some more questions.

Ms. Thibault, could you talk about the main differences between teaching French as a second language and teaching French in immersion programs and about the teacher shortage?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 10 seconds left.

[Nicole Thibault]

When you teach French as a second language, you teach the French language. However, you spend little time talking about culture and having authentic experiences in French.

However, in immersion programs, a certain percentage of the day is spent in French. For example, you learn French by doing math or studying science in French. You live your French and feel more inclined to communicate in French in real life.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you.

Ms. Koutrakis, you have the floor for five long minutes.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to welcome the witnesses. I'm happy to see you here today.

My question is for Mr. Visweswaran.

You have had quite a remarkable journey. I won't give too much away.

Could you tell us what the French language means to you?

[Ahdithya Visweswaran]

I say it often.

French immersion was the biggest gift my parents gave me. French has truly been the fil conducteur throughout my professional career.

I'm a child of Indian immigrants. I was born in the U.S. and started French immersion in Winnipeg, Manitoba. I did it all the way through. I completed French immersion in high school in Edmonton, Alberta. This shows that French immersion works in the western part of the country, too. Then I pursued my post-secondary studies at Campus Saint-Jean in political science and history. That's a completely French degree. I did almost 100% of my studies in French.

Obviously, there are issues accessing post-secondary in French, which this committee is studying. I'm glad to hear that and hope we can solve those issues, so folks can do 100% of their post-secondary in French.

The opportunities that have come from having French have been so many. Most recently—last year—I completed the parliamentary internship program here at the House of Commons. I got to work with a member of the government and the opposition in a program that's bilingual. I wouldn't have gotten to do that—move to Ottawa and work in French. So many opportunities like that have been truly enriching.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I'm truly happy to hear you say what you said.

My journey, if you will, is a bit different than yours, because I am a child of Greek immigrants. My parents emigrated from Greece in 1957. I was born in Montreal, where I continue to live and where my children were born. When it was my turn to go to elementary school, my mom—being a forward thinker, I believe—wanted to register me in French schools, but I did not have the right. Because I was not French Canadian in my province, and because I was not Catholic at the time, the rules were very different. I had to study in English.

I'm happy to say that, one generation later, my two sons are perfectly trilingual, because I had the means to send them to a French private school by choice. I recognized the importance of being perfectly bilingual in this beautiful country of ours. My children would not feel the disadvantages that I sometimes continue to feel to this day.

I'm really proud of you and your journey.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Koutrakis.

You have two minutes left. You can give your time to Mr. Iacono.

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to add to Ms. Koutrakis's story, because I went through the same dilemma. In the 1970s, my parents wanted to send me to a French school.

By the way, before coming to Canada, my parents went to live in France for five years, in order to learn French before coming to Canada from Italy. When they came to Quebec, they wanted to send me to French school. I confronted the same dilemma. We were not allowed to go to French school because we were threatening to the French language schools—taking over their space. We were obliged to go to an English school.

Today, my 10-year-old son goes to a bilingual school. Just last night, my wife was telling him, “Gabriel, parle-moi en français.” He has come out recently with great marks because we push him to speak French at home. He's doing great, and we're proud of that. We're proud to be supporting the languages.

[Ahdithya Visweswaran]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I would add another point.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We're listening.

[Ahdithya Visweswaran]

I think that goes to show that immigrants and newcomers who come to Canada value bilingualism and truly want their kids to succeed in both official languages. All of our stories show that.

Just to point to statistics as well, Statistics Canada shows that about half of the students in French immersion programs across Canada are of immigrant origin. It's not just folks who were born and raised here, but also people who come to Canada and want all of the opportunities that this country can provide.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I want to quickly address the comments made by Ms. Koutrakis and Mr. Iacono. I would like them to give me the year of these rejections and the names of the schools that rejected them. I've read a study suggesting that a myth has been spread about this topic. We'll talk about this later.

My question is for Mr. Dorion.

Your study argues that funds must be invested starting now and that language and culture have already lost a great deal of ground over the past two generations.

What do you think the future holds for French?

[Basile Dorion]

There's a clear need to invest in people who already speak French. If they all disappear, we'll no longer need French as a second language or we'll need it much less.

The issue lies in the fact that our boards and organizations believe that all rights holders are people who speak French as their main language. This isn't the case at all. If you want a service, you ask for it in the language in which you're comfortable. If you're more comfortable in French, you ask for it in French. If you're more comfortable in English, you ask for it in English.

There's a lack of investment in children who already speak French. I have no issue with all the other investments. It's just necessary to invest in the people who remain francophone, because they're dropping like flies. It takes a great deal of energy, both to retain these people and to seek out more people.