Evidence of meeting #121 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was schools.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Yvon Laberge  President and Chief Executive Officer, Educacentre College
Sylvianne Maisonneuve  Board Chair, NorthWest Francophone Education Region
Brigitte Kropielnicki  Superintendent of schools, NorthWest Francophone Education Region
Daniel Bourgeois  Researcher, As an Individual
Stéphanie Chouinard  Associate Professor, As an Individual

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 121 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

I would remind those who are present around the table to read the written notices on the cards in front of you, to avoid acoustic incidents that could injure our interpreters. Please take the time to read the little card and follow the guidelines.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, April 29, 2024, we are continuing our study on the minority-language education continuum.

I would like to welcome the witnesses who will be with us for the first hour this morning. Yvon Laberge, president and chief executive officer of Educacentre College, will be appearing virtually.

Welcome, Mr. Laberge.

The other witnesses are representing the Conseil scolaire du Nord-Ouest. You will have to tell me what northwest that is, because in my little province, New Brunswick, we have a Conseil scolaire du Nord-Ouest and it is in my riding, Madawaska—Restigouche.

I think this is the one in northwestern Ontario. We have Sylvianne Maisonneuve with us.

I am told it is not northwestern Ontario, it is the one in Alberta. Please forgive me.

Actually, I even think Ms. Maisonneuve has testified before the committee in the past.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

I think the interpretation is not working.

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

There is no interpretation.

Just a minute, we are going to check it.

Leila Dance NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

I was getting the translation.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

I'm on the English channel. I'm not getting it.

Okay.

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Apparently there is no problem.

When I speak in French, are you hearing the interpretation? It seems so.

The problem has been solved.

So from the Conseil scolaire du Nord‑Ouest, we have Sylvianne Maisonneuve, the president, and Brigitte Kropielnicki, executive director.

Welcome, everyone. You are participating in the meeting virtually.

For those testifying for the first time, I will explain how we operate. Each organization has five minutes to make a presentation, introduce themselves, and tell us what their expectations are. There will then be several rounds of questions from MPs from the various parties. Interaction will be in question and answer format. I will offer guidance when the time comes.

I am very tough when it comes to time. That is my job. The tougher we are about that, the more opportunity there is to ask questions.

I will now give each organization five minutes for its presentation; we will start with Mr. Laberge from Educacentre College.

The floor is yours, Mr. Laberge. We are listening.

Yvon Laberge President and Chief Executive Officer, Educacentre College

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, members of the committee.

I am pleased to be here with you today to discuss issues relating to post‑secondary education in French in official language minority communities. I will be speaking mainly about the objective of obtaining funding from federal sources for post‑secondary institutions that provide services to official language minority communities in Canada. My remarks will focus on the situation of francophone minorities in British Columbia and on Educacentre College.

Educacentre College was established in British Columbia in 1992 and is notable as the only francophone college in the province. It is a charitable not-for-profit organization operating under provincial jurisdiction. Since 2015, Educacentre College has been recognized as a private college by the British Columbia Ministry of Advanced Education and Skills Training.

We have asked to be granted public college status but the provincial government has not agreed. Since its status is private, Educacentre College does not have access to federal funding opportunities such as the Post-Secondary Institutions Strategic Investment Fund.

In 2023‑24, Educacentre College served nearly 3,000 people across all programs and services, including 1,018 students at the college level. The college trains a large majority of French-speaking educators in the province. The college plans to admit up to 25 international students in September 2025 and we hope that they will choose to stay in the province after completing their studies.

Educacentre College's funding continues to be the crucial issue that needs to be resolved. For the fiscal year ending on March 31, 2024, 87% of the college's funds came from the federal government, with the rest coming from income-generating activities. Funding from the minority language education support program accounts for 21% of the total budget. Of that figure, 52% is provided to fund core activities and the rest goes to fund defined projects. However, the core funding provided to the college has been unchanged since 2014. The consequences of core funding remaining static while the cost of living rises include a significant risk to the college's future posed by the widening gap between its operating costs and its core funding and the difficulty of recruiting and retaining employees as a result of being unable to offer wage increases.

This summary brings us to two key observations. The first is the financial withdrawal on the part of the province. The second is the absence of permanent federal funding for post-secondary education. These two factors are major concerns in that they contribute to the stagnation of the college's core funding. We believe it is the responsibility of the federal government to ensure that the province honours its commitment to pay 50% to match federal funding to support instruction in the minority language. If the province does not fulfill its obligation, it is up to the federal government to take measures to ensure that the necessary funding is provided to the college. Such measures could include discussions with the provinces or even legal action, if necessary.

We are therefore making three recommendations to the committee. First, we recommend that the Government of Canada provide a permanent funding envelope to support post-secondary institutions in official language minority communities. This is essential to ensure continued, stable support for these institutions. This permanent funding would enable them to do long-term planning, improve working conditions for their employees and offer hig- quality programs.

Second, we recommend that the Government of Canada take a flexible approach in interpreting its funding parameters for private post-secondary institutions in provinces where the provincial government refuses to recognize them as public institutions.

Third, we recommend that the Government of Canada take concrete measures to support post-secondary students in official language minority communities where the provinces and territories fail to meet their financial obligations. If a provincial or territorial government refuses to contribute equitably to funding post-secondary institutions, the federal government should consider making up the funding shortfall directly.

By including these recommendations in your efforts to meet the funding and stability challenge, you could contribute to strengthening Educacentre College's financial viability and ensure that it is able to continue playing its part in post-secondary education in French in British Columbia.

Thank you for your attention.

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you, Mr. Laberge.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Maisonneuve from the Conseil scolaire du Nord‑Ouest for five minutes.

Sylvianne Maisonneuve Board Chair, NorthWest Francophone Education Region

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Sylvianne Maisonneuve and I am the president of the CSNO, the Conseil scolaire du Nord‑Ouest de l'Alberta.

Thank you for this opportunity to appear before you today. I am going to talk about the crucial issues involved in ensuring the survival of the French language and francophone culture in the northwest.

The CSNO's territory covers all of northwestern Alberta from Slave Lake to the British Columbia border and the Northwest Territories border. We currently have three kindergarten to grade 12 francophone schools with approximately 460 students.

I am first going to address the issue of ECCs, early childhood centres. ECCs are essential to help parents pass on their language and culture and properly prepare children for their academic career. The CSNO has long recognized the importance of offering these services in its schools. We operate three ECCs: a service that provides child care, pre‑kindergarten, and before and afte- school child care in Grande Prairie; a child care centre/pre‑kindergarten in Peace River; and a pre‑kindergarten in Falher where we are taking steps, at parents' request, to open a francophone child care centre in that school as well.

Parents in our communities are thrilled with the Canada-Alberta Canada-Wide Early Learning and Child Care Agreement for $10 a day child care, which has had a very positive effect in our region.

However, we are facing two major challenges when it comes to early childhood. First, there is a shortage of francophone certified early childhood educators in northwestern Alberta. Certification of educators in Alberta is the responsibility of the Ministry of Children's Services. Although that ministry encourages young people to pursue a career in early childhood education, very little promotion is done in French to attract the francophone population to a career in this field.

The second challenge involves adding spaces for an ECC to new school construction projects. It takes too long after a new construction project is announced by the province for the federal government to approve projects in order for matching funds for infrastructure to be provided. The result is wasted time for the architectural team and missed opportunities. There should be a more fluid process to ensure better collaboration between the two governments, to avoid delays or to avoid the risk of not having early childhood spaces in the francophone minority schools.

The CSNO benefits from the Official Languages in Education Program for minority language instruction in elementary and secondary schools. The four francophone school boards in Alberta are working with the Ministry of Education and the CSNO is very happy about this. That financial support will enable the CSNO to offer its students and teachers projects that promote their language and culture in our schools. However, we believe that the funds allocated to Alberta are not sufficient to address the remarkable rise in the number of rights holders in our province. The Official Languages in Education Program is important to us since programming and retaining high school students in our schools are still a challenge, particularly in the community of Grande Prairie, where we have to compete with single-track and special program immersion schools.

In addition, while there has been a shortage of francophone teachers in our region for several years, we have recently observed that the situation has worsened. Teacher positions remain vacant for several months or even for a full school year, and this means that our students do not have access to an education in French that is substantively equivalent to what is offered by English-language schools. A national campaign to encourage young people to enrol in education programs, along with scholarships for graduates who work in minority communities in rural areas, are avenues that could be considered.

The court challenges program is essential if school boards are to be able to ensure that the province meet its responsibilities under section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. However, the inadequate funding of that program means that school boards are not able to effectively assert rights holders' right to francophone education.

The latest data obtained from the enumeration of rights holders has been crucial for the CSNO in its efforts to create new schools and modernize existing institutions. It is essential that this practice be continued, since without data the provinces are unable to fully understand the needs and issues. With this data, we were able to show that there were many rights holders within the area covered by the CSNO who did not have access to francophone education. In Grande Prairie, for example, Nouvelle Frontière school, with an enrolment of 180 students from kindergarten to grade 12, is located in the southwest part of the city. The data from the enumeration revealed that nearly 500 children of rights holder parents were living in the northern part of Grande Prairie, but fewer than 50 children in that part of the city attend Nouvelle Frontière.

As a final point, funding for our only minority post-secondary institution continues to be a significant challenge in our province. Because they do not have adequate financial support, Campus Saint-Jean and the Centre collégial de l'Alberta are not able to offer the programs to which our students should have access. In Alberta, senior high school students have the opportunity to earn dual credits recognized at both the college and high school levels.

Unfortunately, our students who are interested in various trades have to take those courses in English, because they are not offered in French. As a result, our students who want to earn those credits do not receive their secondary education in French.

Thank you for listening. I am available to answer your questions.

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you, Ms. Maisonneuve.

For the first round of questions and answers, each party will have six minutes. We will begin with the Conservative Party.

Mr. Godin, the floor is yours for six minutes.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for helping us get better as we do a study that I hope will address their circumstances.

My first question is for Mr. Laberge from Educacentre College.

Mr. Laberge, you said you currently have 1,018 students enrolled for the 2023‑24 year. Is that correct?

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Educacentre College

Yvon Laberge

Yes, there are 1,018 enrolments—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Right. Mr. Laberge, you understand that I only have six minutes of speaking time. I would appreciate it if you give me succinct answers, so we can explore the subject in greater depth.

You said that you anticipate admitting 25 immigrants in January 2025. Is that correct?

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Educacentre College

Yvon Laberge

That is correct.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Right.

Mr. Laberge, what is your school's occupancy rate right now?

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Educacentre College

Yvon Laberge

It is 110%.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

So I understand there is some overflow.

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Educacentre College

Yvon Laberge

That is correct.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

How many students who have expressed a desire to attend your school have had their applications rejected?

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Educacentre College

Yvon Laberge

At the college level, there are no waiting lists, but other language training programs, such as LINC and CLIC, have long waiting lists.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Right. Thank you, Mr. Laberge.

You also said that the provincial government did not recognize you as a public college.

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Educacentre College

Yvon Laberge

That is correct.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

What effect does that have on your administration?

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Educacentre College

Yvon Laberge

As I pointed out in my presentation, for one thing, it means we don't get adequate core funding. A college the size of ours should have a core budget of around $15 million, but our budget is $790,000.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

So you're doing a lot with a little.