Official Languages Committee on Nov. 26th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner and Mr. Dalton.

Ms. Koutrakis, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Théberge, I will be sharing my time with my colleague Darrell Samson. This means I have two and a half minutes, because the chair is quite strict about speaking time.

The Government of Canada has signed education agreements with provincial and territorial governments. These agreements have a direct impact on the operation of francophone school boards. Do you think the provinces and territories are doing enough for minority-language education? If not, how could they do better?

[Raymond Théberge]

The answer is that it's always possible to do more. That said, the provinces and territories have developed a habit when it comes to minority education, which is to go back to the federal government to ask for more funding. There is no doubt that francophone education in minority communities results in additional costs. However, the federal government's role is to cover incremental costs. So it's not a matter of paying the costs of recruiting teachers, for example. That's not an additional cost. It's vital that the provinces and territories recognize their role. Education falls under their jurisdiction, so their contribution must go beyond core funding.

Earlier, I talked about what Ontario did a few years ago with respect to its language planning policy. It has made significant investments in education, and I think all governments should be investing in their communities.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I would like to thank Mr. Théberge and his team for being here. I don't have a lot of time, so I'm going to ask you to be brief in your answers.

First, however, I wanted to say that the Conseil scolaire acadien provincial in Nova Scotia serves as a model because it was the first to implement a school readiness program aimed at four-year-old children.

That said, here is the fundamental question: Is education in French a right or a privilege?

[Raymond Théberge]

It's a right.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Can a right be infringed upon or expanded?

[Raymond Théberge]

You can do both.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That's correct.

So, as far as section 23 is concerned, does the continuum expand or remove that right?

[Raymond Théberge]

Can you clarify your question?

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Could mentioning the education continuum, i.e., from preschool to post-secondary, in Bill C‑13 broaden the scope of section 23 of the charter?

[Raymond Théberge]

It could broaden the scope of section 23.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Okay.

Has recognizing the right to school management given francophone communities more rights, or has it taken away any rights?

[Raymond Théberge]

It gave them more rights.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Okay.

Now I'm going to ask more specific questions.

If francophones don't have access to education in French, are their rights being violated?

[Raymond Théberge]

Yes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Okay.

If they don't have the necessary infrastructure, are their rights being infringed upon?

[Raymond Théberge]

Absolutely.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

If they don't have funding, are their rights being infringed upon?

[Raymond Théberge]

Absolutely.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

If there are no language clauses in the agreements, are the rights of the francophone minority being violated?

[Raymond Théberge]

Absolutely.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Can you lose your status as a rights holder? The answer is yes, after three generations.

[Raymond Théberge]

Indeed.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I'm getting to my main question.

Are francophones' rights being violated by the fact that there is no infrastructure, that there is no access, that there is not enough money and that there are no language agreements that must be upheld by the provinces? If so, shouldn't that be challenged in court?