Official Languages Committee on Dec. 5th, 2024

[Marc Champagne]

In Yukon, the labour shortage in education is felt to a much greater extent in the field of early childhood. Virtually all of the new employees in our child care centres come from outside Canada. They are newcomers to Canada. Going out and recruiting employees is an expensive, laborious and fairly difficult process.

Regarding our elementary and secondary schools, up to now, we have managed to fill all our positions with trained and qualified teachers. So we are relatively lucky, but we invest a lot in recruitment. With luck, and thanks to those investments, we have been able to fill all our positions, but it is getting harder and harder to do. So this is certainly a subject that concerns us.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Right.

As you say, recruiting and retaining staff calls for a lot of work and is very expensive. Let's talk about early childhood first. Do you believe the federal government has a role to play? Obviously, we know that funds have been promised, and I want to recognize the work done by my colleague Leah Gazan on this subject, when Bill C-35 was enacted. Do you think the federal government has a role to play, or has some responsibility, when it comes to ensuring that child care centre directors and school boards that assist child care centres have permanent funding to enable them to do staff recruitment and training?

[Marc Champagne]

Absolutely. We would definitely like the federal government to participate more. It's more costly to operate a francophone day care centre in northern Canada than an anglophone one. It's also harder to recruit staff, resources are more costly, and there are a lot of additional costs. Consequently, a greater contribution from the federal government would help us continue offering high-quality services and increase supply in order to meet the demand. We urgently need more new day care spaces here in Yukon. As a result, I believe that federal government support and leadership are essential in enabling us to provide equitable services.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Would you please tell us about day care waiting lists? Do you have any figures?

[Marc Champagne]

There are no French-language day care centres in Dawson right now. It's a small community, but we're working on a project to open one here. Last year, we determined that we would need French-language day care services for eight children.

Here in Whitehorse, it's harder to come up with an exact number of children who would need French-language day care services, but the local francophone day care centre, the Petit Cheval Blanc, has a waiting list more than 50 children long. So we're now working on a project to open a second day care in Whitehorse.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Do you agree with other witnesses who have said that, if no investment were made in day care centres, they would lose francophone families and children because they might not continue their education in French beyond early childhood.

[Marc Champagne]

That's absolutely true. We believe in the education continuum principle. Day care centres are essential to the survival and development of francophone schools. In a way, day care centres are the nurseries of our schools. Minority communities absolutely must have French-language child care services to prepare their children and enable them to develop language skills so they're ready to enter our schools. We're losing students and families because we lack day care centres. So that has a major impact on our system.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Mr. Blais, do you have anything to add regarding your situation in Yukon?

[Jean-Sébastien Blais]

I'd just like to say that the cultural and language issue is an important one. Early childhood is a priority issue because every generation loses people to assimilation. If we have to invest in one sector of the education continuum in the north, it would have to be early childhood, which is an increasingly important issue for us. We'd like to see the same sort of leadership from the federal government as we saw with the Centre scolaire secondaire communautaire Paul‑Émile‑Mercier. That requires a type of funding that acknowledges the costs associated with early childhood education in the rural north.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Blais.

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

Witnesses, as is sometimes the case on Parliament Hill, we must suspend this meeting because there will shortly be a vote in the House of Commons. However, if you haven't had a chance to forward all the information you wanted to send us, please don't hesitate to do so in writing and to forward it to the clerk, who will distribute it to all the committee members.

Mr. Henry, I interrupted your presentation at the five-minute mark. You were discussing a fourth point, and I cut you off. You also wanted to discuss fifth, sixth and seventh points. Please feel free to send us any additional information that can inform us and help us draft our report.

I see you've raised your hand. Do you have a question?

[Paul E. Henry]

Just a comment, Mr. Chair. I previously sent my remarks in French to the clerk, and they've already been translated into English. So you have the rest of what I wanted to say as well as the questionnaire that I completed.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you for responding to the questionnaire.

Thanks to all the witnesses. Your work is important, and we need to hear what you have to say so we can draft our report.

Mr. Henry, you told us you've been working in this field for 33 years. On behalf of all the members of this committee, I tip my hat to you.

Witnesses, we won't detain you any longer, but, if you wish, you may stay online or remain here in person for the next part of our meeting, which will begin when we come back from voting.

We will now suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We will now resume.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on April 29, 2024, we will resume our study on the minority language education continuum.

I'd like to welcome the witnesses who are with us, both in person and by video conference, for the second hour of this meeting.

From the Provincial Francophone School Board of Newfoundland and Labrador, we welcome Michael Clair, chair, who is joining us by video conference. From the Fédération des parents de la francophonie manitobaine, we also have Brigitte L'Heureux.

If I'm not mistaken, this is your first appearance before the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Don't worry though; this is the best committee in town.

Each of you will have five minutes, and I ask you to stick to that time limit. That way the committee members, who are passionately interested in this subject, can ask several rounds of questions.

Mr. Clair, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Michael Clair, Chair of the Board of Trustees, Provincial Francophone School Board of Newfoundland and Labrador]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I didn't know you were strict about the five minutes, and I timed myself at seven minutes, so I'll cut out a few parts of my speech.

The Francophonie of Newfoundland and Labrador is a very small component, less than 5% of the province's total population, and that population is scattered across the province.

We are very far from having the demographic or political weight to impose our will on the provincial government and sometimes even to be recognized at all by our decision-makers. So, we have three ways to have our rights recognized.

The first is the demographic and economic argument that we put forward. We are a gateway for francophone immigrants, people who speak one of the most widely spoken languages in the world. We open international export markets. We also tell them that the the fact that we are francophones allows us to be more visible and influential within Confederation. For example, after 70 years in the Canadian family, the province finally has a judge on the Supreme Court of Canada who meets the requirement of being bilingual. So we are an asset to the province.

The second argument we can turn to is the Courts of Justice. Sometimes even the threat of litigation is enough to get things moving.

The third and final argument that we can tell you about is the federal government. This is the level of government that defends official bilingualism across the country. Although many essential services for the minority—such as education, health and early childhood—are mainly under provincial auspices, the federal government can encourage the provinces to better serve their linguistic minority with financial and other incentives.

And here we come to the Official Languages in Education Program, our beloved OLEP. First of all, I want to thank the federal government for initiating this program, not only for the development of the Francophonie in our province, but for its very survival.

However, not everything is perfect and I thank the Official Languages Committee for inviting me to discuss how we could improve this program. The major shortcoming of the OLEP in Newfoundland and Labrador is that the French-speaking community is in no way involved or even consulted in its development. Since the beginning of the Provincial Francophone School Board 28 years ago, not once has the province invited the board to participate in the negotiation or management of the three-year minority language education agreements that have been signed to date. I believe there have been seven of these to date.

To our knowledge, there has never been any consultation with the community to determine our needs. This goes squarely against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and even the principle of “nothing about us without us”. The unfortunate reality is that people who are not an integral part of the French-speaking community identify what they interpret as the needs of the community and communicate them unilaterally to the federal government. This does not make sense, specially since clause 5.2 of the agreement requires that reports due to the federal government require the inclusion of a description of the consultations conducted with the main stakeholders for the development of the action plan and the consultation process that will be established for the implementation of the action plan. A provision of the Bilateral Agreement on Minority-Language Education thus provides that we be consulted.

However, the federal position seems to have been—and I believe it still is —that since education is a provincial prerogative, then the provinces should not be forced too much to follow the instructions of the agreement, except those related to funding. If the province does not consult its francophone community, well, too bad.

In 2017, we approached the federal government to insist that the province involve the minority community more fully in this process, without success. And so, the school board filed a lawsuit in Federal Court to force Canadian Heritage to fully apply clause 5.2 of the agreement. Seven years later, the case has not yet been heard. One of the reasons for this delay is that it is only recently that the community has come to understand in detail the workings of this agreement and the opportunities that we have missed over the years due to its lack of transparency.

As a result, we insisted on a meeting with the Minister of Education to develop a new protocol that would govern the negotiation and management of this agreement. We have just recently received the response that the province is ready to meet with us to discuss this issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Clair. I'm sure you'll be able to tell us more about this when you answer questions from the members.

Ms. L'Heureux, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Brigitte L'Heureux, Executive Director, Fédération des parents de la francophonie manitobaine]

Good afternoon, everyone.

It's a pleasure for me to be here today to discuss the education continuum and, in particular, the role of early childhood in it. First of all, I think it's important to define what early childhood services are. The Fédération des parents de la francophonie manitobaine and its partners believe it is important to provide two types of services on the minority education continuum.

First, we offer Manitoba's francophone families a network of childhood educational resource centres, family centres that provide French-language services and programming for children and their parents. In Manitoba, these centres are located in the schools of the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine, and they are the children's first steppingstone to their future education. The centres are full of important information, and they promote networking and convey that information to the parents.

The second service, which will definitely be of greater interest to you is the range of early childhood day care and learning services. This includes learning centres, such as early childhood centres and day cares, as well as day care services in a family setting. These services make it possible for parents to go back to work or back to school while their children continue to grow and develop through play, learning and making new friends. Providing children in the early childhood range with high-quality learning services has an enormous impact on both the children and society. These services may also have a considerable impact on the health, economic and legal systems and are thus a worthwhile investment. In a minority setting, these services also have a major impact on the development of francophone communities.

I'd like to discuss several challenges with you, but I'll limit myself to issues pertaining partnerships, accessibility, structure and funding.

To ensure a successful transition through the various parts of the continuum, we need to emphasize how important it is to promote sound partnerships and constant dialogue among the continuum's actors. The various education partners in Manitoba frequently meet to discuss the continuum, the needs of each of its components, how best to help each other and, especially, major challenges.

With regard to the challenge of accessibility in Manitoba, not all francophone families have access to a day care service or childhood educational resource centre. According to the last survey, which was conducted this past summer as part of our strategic planning, the most urgent need among families is for access to a space in a day care service. In our view, this lack of access could have a major impact on the rest of the continuum and within the francophonie as a whole.

The last challenge concerns structure and funding. It is clear from a comparison between the early childhood sector and the school board and post-secondary institutions sector that the former isn't as structured or funded as the latter. The research clearly shows that early childhood is a critical time for brain and language development. It seems to me that, if we want a genuine education continuum, we have to invest in new types of structures and early childhood services, which include early childhood professionals and related services that make it possible to manage that structure.

Thank you very much for listening. I will be happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. L'Heureux. You completed your remarks in four minutes. I hope the committee members are as disciplined as you.

As the second hour of the meeting has been shortened as a result of the vote in the House, I'm going to be strict about speaking time and will warn you 15 seconds before your time is up.

We will begin with the Conservative Party. I give the floor to the committee's first vice-chair, Mr. Godin, for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. L'Heureux and Mr. Clair.

Mr. Clair, you said that the Provincial Francophone School Board wasn't consulted but that the province now seemed to be open to the possibility. Has the threat of a lawsuit made them take an interest in your needs?

Today you also have an opportunity to be consulted by the Standing Committee on Official Languages about improving the education continuum. What would be the most important factor to consider when we draft our report?

[Michael Clair]

I think the federal government should be less skittish about enforcing the clauses of the agreement that say the community has to be consulted. It should also describe what it considers an acceptable consultation. For the moment, the provinces may or may not consult us. There's no pressure from the federal government. Now that we're going to negotiate with the province, it would be a good thing if the federal government put some pressure on it and urged it to consult us.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I understand you, Mr. Clair, but help us help you: how can the federal government put pressure on the provinces and territories?

[Michael Clair]

I'm not a politician, so it's up to you to do that. All I can do is tell you what we need, which is to be consulted.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Clair, I'm going to stop you right there. Yes, you've identified a need, but I need solutions if I'm to be more effective as a legislator.

Can you tell me exactly how we can respectfully force the provinces and territories to do the right thing and help the Canadian francophonie grow?

[Michael Clair]

The two parties have consented, under the agreement, to conduct consultations. One of the parties isn't doing that, and the other can't force it to do so.

I therefore think that it may be up to the federal government to ensure that the province conducts its consultations, perhaps by asking the province to have the community organizations provide letters of support or letters confirming that they've been consulted and the dates of those consultations.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Clair.

Actually, the problem is that the act doesn't provide for that kind of leverage. Furthermore, provincial jurisdictions must also be respected. So this is a delicate situation which unfortunately turns on the wishes of the people and decision-makers. So that's the problem.

We've previously heard that Yukon's territorial government and the Commission scolaire francophone du Yukon are co-operating. From what I understand, however, the same can't be said about Newfoundland and Labrador.

Ms. L'Heureux, it's interesting that you focus on early childhood because we heard in the first hour of our meeting that it's a nursery for developing the francophonie.

Consequently, we have to invest, but, as you know, if we invest, mathematically, the budget won't really be the same because the costs will be passed on to someone else. Federal government money is taxpayers' money, and budgets have to be managed. However, I entirely agree with your conclusion that we have to invest in early childhood because that's our resource for developing the francophonie.

Where could we find the money to invest in early childhood services and increase the potential clientele and help it expand the continuum?

[Brigitte L'Heureux]

I think that both money and structure are important. Some school boards and universities receive operating funding. In the case of early childhood, individual non-profit organizations often focus on their local clientele.

Many federations of parents are developing structural initiatives. We've established the Centre d'appui à la jeune enfance du Manitoba. We also manage six learning centres, but we have 24 members. We need to have investment centralized at a central point and for funding to be distributed across the francophonie. I think that's probably the best way to do things if we want to generate economies of scale. We can't invest in every individual centre because there are thousands of them across the province. Structuring means finding ways to work together to generate economies of scale.

That being said, investments necessarily have to be made. We can't keep on professionalizing the field and engaging in development if we don't have people who can do it.