Official Languages Committee on June 8th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 26 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Today's meeting is in a hybrid format, and members are attending in person or via the Zoom application.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from health authorities to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person should follow the directives of the Board of Internal Economy.

Should any technical challenges arise, please advise me. Please note that we may need to suspend for a few minutes, as we need to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, May 30, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of Bill C‑13, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act, to enact the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act and to make related amendments to other Acts.

On behalf of the entire committee, I would now like to welcome today's witnesses, who represent the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, or FCFA: Liane Roy, president, and Alain Dupuis, director.

Ms. Roy, this is your first in‑person appearance before the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Welcome to Parliament Hill.

As you know, we will allow you five minutes for your presentation. Then each of the members of the political parties that form this excellent committee will have a chance to ask you questions.

Ms. Roy, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Liane Roy, President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

We are very pleased to appear before you today to discuss Bill C‑13. We have also come here with a sense of accomplishment. For five years, we have committed ourselves to this grand effort to provide Canada with a strong, modern and respected Official Languages Act.

We are now on the threshold of a historic change for Canada's linguistic duality. I can't help but think of all the people, here in Parliament and in our communities, who have helped to advance this major project.

You have received FCFA's brief outlining the final amendments that we consider important to ensure that the modernized act actually changes the situation in the way we all hope. In the few minutes allotted me, I would like to focus mainly on the underlying reasons for those amendments.

The purpose of the first amendment is to clarify the role of the Treasury Board as the central agency charged with coordinating implementation of the Official Languages Act as a whole. Under our proposed amendment, Canadian Heritage would be stripped of its coordinating role, which clashes with that of the Treasury Board, while retaining its policy role and authority to design and administer programs. We would also eliminate the provision enabling the Treasury Board to delegate its coordination responsibilities to other federal institutions. This would preclude future governments from deciding that every institution is individually in a better position to manage the application of the act internally, a situation that would result in the lack of consistency and central coordination that we currently condemn.

The second amendment would provide for strong language clauses to be included in the agreements under which funding is transferred to the provinces and territories. As you are aware, failure to include such clauses has frequently deprived francophones of services in their language. It is the reason why British Columbia francophones have been fighting their employment assistance services case in the courts for more than a decade. The purpose of our amendment is to put an end to this problem, specifically by authorizing the federal government to deal directly with our communities if a province or territory resists the idea of language clauses.

The third amendment would clarify the objective of the francophone immigration policy the federal government will have to adopt. That objective must be to restore the demographic weight of our communities clearly and unambiguously. This is important because immigration is already by far the main, if not the only, source of demographic growth in our communities.

Fourth, since the concept of "positive measures" included in part VII of the act has been challenged in the courts, it should be clarified once and for all so that federal institutions are more aware of what they are required to do. The wording of the bill should refer to "necessary measures" instead of measures that federal institutions consider appropriate.

In addition, since Bill C‑11, the purpose of which is to modernize the Broadcasting Act, includes highly detailed provisions on consultations, the FCFA requests that those provisions also be included in Bill C‑13.

The fifth amendment concerns the scope of the powers of the Commissioner of Official Languages. We applaud the fact that Bill C‑13 grants the Commissioner, for the first time, the power to make orders and impose penalties. However, one wonders why that power is limited to certain parts of the act. The Commissioner should at least be able to make orders respecting federal institutions' obligations under part VII.

Lastly, the FCFA is very pleased that Bill C‑13 acknowledges that French is not on an equal footing with English and that it must be protected and promoted across the country, including in Quebec. However, the FCFA recommends that the definition of the term "francophone minorities" be revised to ensure it is clearly interpreted when applied to francophone communities outside Quebec.

Members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, this may be the last time the FCFA appears before you to discuss the modernization of the Official Languages Act. Whatever else may happen, let us hope this process can be completed in the next few weeks. If we are successful, let it go down in history that we dreamed big dreams for the French language, for linguistic duality and for Canada. Our children and grandchildren will thank us for it.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Roy.

To begin the first round of questions, I give the floor to the first vice-chair of the committee.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Roy and Mr. Dupuis, thank you for being here.

Right off the bat, I want to assure the FCFA of the Conservative Party of Canada's cooperation and attention, which I feel I've clearly demonstrated throughout the invaluable meetings we've had leading up to your appearance here today.

My first question is for you, Ms. Roy.

At the end of your remarks, you said you would like the Official Languages Act modernization project to be "completed in the next few weeks". I'd like to know what that means for you.

[Liane Roy]

It's very important for us that the work be done quickly but well. Every week's delay in the process turns out to be very costly for the various communities. As you know, the new Action Plan for Official Languages is being prepared. The longer the bill's adoption is delayed, the greater the impact on financial issues concerning our communities will be.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You say that, if we don't pass the Official Languages Act modernization bill quickly, you'll become victims under the next Action Plan for Official Languages. I want to reassure you that the government has just begun consultations. I don't think the one prevents the other. I also don't think the FCFA will be hurt in the process.

On March 23, a witness appearing before the committee said that the bill "clearly outlines the Treasury Board's central agency role". Do you think Bill C‑13 adequately responds to what that witness said?

[Liane Roy]

No. We're asking that it go a bit further with regard to the Treasury Board. We'd like it not to apply solely to what's included in Bill C‑13, and that it extend to the act as a whole. It's important for us that a central agency implement the act as a whole, coordinate the act as a whole and ensure accountability for the act as a whole.

Accountability is a very important aspect. We have to have a holistic overview, a general overview, of everything that's done regarding official languages across the entire machinery of government, and, in our view and that of our lawyers, the Treasury Board is capable of doing that.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Ms. Roy, I completely agree with what you say. I think the Treasury Board must be in charge of applying the act as a whole. It's the only one of the various departments named in the act that can both demand accountability and be accountable.

Do you know who said those words? It was the Minister of Official Languages. She was appearing before the committee on another matter, but she also discussed Bill C‑13.

You said we had to proceed quickly, and I completely agree with you. However, we have to do things right because we're drafting a bill for the next 50 years. You say you have a sense of accomplishment because you've been working on the modernization bill for five years. The government has been working on it for five years too, but nonchalantly at times. You mustn't blame us for delaying the process. Our objective is that the act guarantee that Canada is a bilingual country for the next 50 years.

I would ask you please to stop pressing us to work harder. We have to do things right, but it's mathematically impossible to do that in the three remaining meetings. We have to be realistic. We want to do things right. I think we should target late 2022 instead. I think we can make ourselves available for that. Once again, for example, today we're extending the committee meeting by half an hour as a result of some voting-related parliamentary restrictions.

I'd like to know if the FCFA can be open and understand that we're taking the time to do things right. The FCFA represents a segment of the stakeholders concerned by Bill C‑13, but other groups and sectors are affected as well. Part II of the Official Languages Act concerns businesses.

Ms. Roy, what is the FCFA's position in light of the discussion we just had?

[Liane Roy]

As you know, we've been working on this for five years, even more. We began thinking about it in 2009. So it's been a very long time.

Many of you have witnessed the various efforts we've made: the model bill the FCFA presented in 2019, the involvement of our committees in Ms. Joly's consultations, our participation, as you know, in the studies conducted by the official languages committees of the House of Commons and the Senate, our in‑depth analysis of Ms. Joly's official languages reform document in February 2021, our actions concerning Bill C‑32, which was introduced in the last Parliament, and so on.

There's nothing surprising about our position. Our demands haven't changed; we believe we've said what we had to say. Now it's up to you to do the work.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Since you're saying it's now up to us to do the work, I'm going to ask you to trust us. We're going to do a thorough job and occasionally draw on your organization's resources, since you are invaluable partners.

However, I want to tell you that we'll be working with other groups. With regard to language clauses, we will consult the provincial and territorial governments to determine how those clauses can be applied in a manner consistent with the areas of jurisdiction.

We now have a bill, and we're working on it. I don't think there's any chance of another election in the next few months.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Godin.

Ms. Kayabaga, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First, I'd like to thank the witnesses. It's a pleasure to have them here again.

I'm going to continue on the same subject my colleague addressed.

I know you've taken part in many consultations with the minister, and you initially made many recommendations. We've now reached the point where your recommendations are really very relevant. You mentioned in your opening statement how important it was to move forward. It has to be clearly said: we've been conducting consultations for a long time. We've been waiting for years for a bill like Bill C‑13 to be passed.

Can you tell us today how important it is for the bill to be passed quickly?

And do you know there's a review system that applies to every statute implemented within government?

[Liane Roy]

Thank you very much for that question.

As you know, the FCFA has 21 member organizations. We've submitted many proposals to the committee and government over the past five years. As I said earlier, we drafted the model bill, which included more than 100 proposals for modernizing the Official Languages Act. We've also conducted a number of exercises to establish priorities with our members over the past five years. That's what led to the six amendment requests that we submitted to you.

What's important for us in all this work is that our requests be foundational and that the effect they have cut across the entire federal government by improving the status of French in all files. We would like all of these requests to be included in the bill because we feel they are all priorities. The process must be conducted properly, but quickly. We're trying to avoid a whole host of problems that may arise if the process takes too long. Earlier I mentioned the next Action Plan for Official Languages, but there are many other conditions. Perhaps my colleague Mr. Dupuis would like to provide some clarification on that.

[Alain Dupuis, Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

For example, the policy on francophone immigration promised in Bill C‑13 is essential. As the demographic weight of our communities has been in free fall for decades, we need a strong and clear francophone immigration policy so we can establish new targets and, above all, implement new immigration programs that meet the specific needs of francophone and Acadian communities. That's a very specific example.

Our communities have major labour shortages in education, early childhood and health. All the public services of all the levels of government are short of bilingual personnel.

In addition, our country has major French-language issues that must be resolved. In the meantime, we need a bill to be passed so the necessary policies can be put forward.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I'd like to go back to the same question: what will be the impact on funding for francophone communities if this bill isn't passed within a reasonable time frame?

[Liane Roy]

We could miss the 2023 budget cycle. We brought up the action plan earlier because the next action plan will run from 2023 to 2028. The budget cycle is very important. If delays occur in passing the bill, the act could be out of sync with the action plan, which is the essential official languages tool.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

As you can understand, we must pass this bill as soon as possible to avoid any negative impact on francophone minority communities, which have a range of needs.

The government recently began consultations on the next Action Plan for Official Languages. If, as a result of procedural problems caused by the opposition parties, Bill C‑13 isn't passed before the next action plan is introduced, what further impact will that have on francophone communities across Canada, but especially outside Quebec, which are currently in the minority.

[Alain Dupuis]

I hear the messages of the political parties. However, what's important to know is that the communities are ready, and they have clear ideas that we want to put forward. We expect the committee to do its job. I think it's truly possible to make transpartisan gains on official languages. We hope that members of Parliament will cooperate and pass the bill. I would very much like us to be able to examine the content of the amendments we propose. We want to work with everyone, and we want to spread these ideas with the help of all the political parties around this table.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Earlier we discussed the possibility of continuing consultations with other organizations than the FCFA. What other communities can you suggest we consult so we can move forward within a reasonable time frame?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 20 seconds left.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Then I thank you once again for appearing before the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have time to answer the question, Ms. Roy.

[Liane Roy]

We've conducted exhaustive consultations thus far in order to present our priorities to you. So I think we're done with consultations.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you.

The next speaker will be the second vice-chair of the committee, Mario Beaulieu.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Good afternoon. It's pleasure to see you.

As you know, we support all your requests concerning the francophone and Acadian communities. Quebec has its own requests. Perhaps you've heard the demands the Quebec government recently submitted to us.

The federal government has committed to extending some of the provisions of Bill C‑13 to include regions outside Quebec that have a strong francophone presence, particularly as regards federally regulated businesses. Have you had any discussions with the government on that issue?

Can you also tell us how regions with a strong francophone presence are defined?