Official Languages Committee on June 8th, 2022

[Liane Roy]

We also want those powers to extend to part VII of the act. Perhaps we can show you clearly what's on page 20 brief.

Do you want to discuss that, Mr. Dupuis?

[Alain Dupuis]

On page 20, we propose to expand the commissioner's order-making power by granting him a new power under Bill C‑13. We want to extend that power beyond part IV of the act, which concerns services, and part V, which concerns rights respecting language of work, among other things.

We would also like this order-making power to be expanded to part VII to enable him to determine whether a federal institution has failed to take necessary positive measures or to consult the communities, or whether a department has failed to consider the negative impacts of a decision on official language minority communities. The commissioner could then order that institution to redo the work, conduct further consultations and reconsider positive measures.

This would have a major impact on francophone communities. With this power, certain court cases could be avoided. Some have gone as far as the Supreme Court of Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Lehoux.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I'd like to discuss one final point pertaining to the role of the Treasury Board or the Department of Canadian Heritage regarding revision of the act.

Are you in favour of the idea that this would be the role of the Treasury Board, not Canadian Heritage?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please answer briefly.

[Liane Roy]

I'll be brief, Mr. Chair.

As I said in my opening statement, it's important for us that a central agency be responsible for the entire act and ensure coordination and implementation of the act as well as accountability. That's why we think the Treasury Board is in the best position to do that work.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Roy and Mr. Lehoux.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I promise I won't introduce any motions today.

I just want to say I understand my NDP colleague's comments. However, if I had been in her position at the last meeting, I would've presented the amendments she wanted to make in her motion. However, she didn't do that.

Once again today, I can say I've received no counteroffers on the length of the committee's study on Bill C‑13. This is important for me because it's a form of obstruction of Parliament to introduce 100 amendments or summon a large number of witnesses without the committee having an opportunity to consider the crux of the matter. I'm still waiting for a counteroffer from the opposition parties respecting the time we'll take to study this bill. This is important, and stakeholders want it.

Now getting down to brass tacks.

Ms. Roy, you established the central agency principle. I remember meeting your predecessors, when we discussed the Dion plan and the Privy Council Office.

Why should the Treasury Board be the central agency responsible for implementing the Official Languages Act rather than the Privy Council Office?

[Liane Roy]

We and our lawyers have examined all the functions of each of those central agencies. On pages 3 to 7 of our brief, we explain why we think this should be the role of the Treasury Board. We think it's very important to have this central agency, which already has this mandate for other provisions. That's why we think the Treasury Board should do it. It's important that the role be performed by an agency that can compel certain things and go even further.

The Department of Canadian Heritage currently plays this role. We know that Bill C‑13 employs the same language as the old act, words like “encourage” and “promote”. We think that doesn't go far enough.

We need an agency that will approach official languages and all federal institutions in a comprehensive manner, one that will make implementation, coordination and accountability possible.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We know that “promoting” and “encouraging” haven't worked in the past. While the Treasury Board can intervene, it has frequently failed to do so on certain principles of the act. Which is why the new bill should provide that the agency “shall intervene”.

What do you think we can do to correct the wording of the act? You've proposed a number of amendments. You initially proposed 25 of them, but cut that number down to 6.

How did you go about cutting 25 amendments down to 6?

[Liane Roy]

Following all the consultations we've conducted of our members over the last five years…

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Pardon me for interrupting. Whom did you consult so you could cut 25 amendments down to 6?

To put the question more clearly, did you consult my colleague Mr. Samson or my colleague the former Minister of Francophone Affairs for Ontario, for example?

Whom have you consulted in the past few months, since Bill C‑32 became Bill C‑13?

[Liane Roy]

First, we consulted all the parties as well as our members; we referred to the model bill we had proposed and to all the studies we had conducted in the context of the meetings of the standing committees on official languages of the House of Commons and the Senate. However, since the Bill C‑32 case in particular, we've exhaustively consulted all the parties, members and communities. We've also consulted people who aren't members of the FCFA but who work in the official languages field. So we've consulted all…

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Pardon me for interrupting. I understand the principle of your consultations.

We propose to invite all the provincial premiers to testify on the matter of language clauses. Do you expect them to accept our language clauses?

Would you expect Blaine Higgs to agree to the language clause in an agreement on early childhood, for example?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please be brief, Ms. Roy.

[Liane Roy]

As we said, I think we can try. We've made some proposals in our brief, and we've also proposed alternatives. For example, if language clauses aren't accepted, we can propose another solution whereby the federal government could address the communities directly on matters of concern to them.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Roy.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As you know, Quebec contributes a great deal to the vitality of the francophone and Acadian communities—teachers, markets for francophone artists outside Quebec and so on—and I think that's a good thing.

If French continues to decline quickly in Quebec, as it's doing—Statistics Canada forecasts that the number of mother-tongue francophones will fall to 73.6% of the population within 15 years—do you think that will weaken the Canadian and North American francophonie as a whole?

[Liane Roy]

It's obviously important for the whole country to have a strong French presence in Quebec. We want the French language to be a real presence in our communities and for that presence to generate all types of opportunities for exchanges, closer relations and so on.

Consequently, it's important to maintain a demographic weight across Canada and to ensure that the French language…

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You understand that the current version of Bill C‑13 will require a lot of improvements in order to meet your targets. However, it's even further from meeting Quebec's targets and demands that French be the common language and the language of integration for newcomers.

Have you sensed that in the Quebec government's demands?

[Alain Dupuis]

We speak on behalf of francophone communities outside Quebec, but certainly our destiny is intimately bound up with the future of French in North America. Consequently, additional steps must be taken to support French in Quebec as well.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Quebec's objective is actually to secure the future of French in Quebec, but also to support francophone and Acadian communities.

We discussed immigration earlier. According to the observations of researchers like Charles Castonguay, the assimilation rate of newcomers who settle outside Quebec is just as high as that of francophones as a whole…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please be brief, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

How could we counteract that situation?

[Alain Dupuis]

I think that the more the demographic weight of francophones declines, the faster the assimilation will be. It seems obvious to us that newcomers who settle here, with their skills and their vision of this global francophonie, can only strengthen and vitalize the broader francophone community and help us moderate assimilation.