Official Languages Committee on June 8th, 2022

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Could you say something to us about the historic opportunity this bill provides to effect fundamental changes like that?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton, but you've run out of time.

If you have anything else to add in response to the questions that you didn't have time to mention, you can always send it in writing to the clerk, who will pass it on to all members of the committee.

I'm going to reduce the amount of speaking time for the Conservatives and Liberals to four minutes each.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for four minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to clarify something before continuing. We heard comments from the party on the other side of the table.

I would simply like to mention to you, Ms. Roy and Mr. Dupuis, and everyone listening, that if we find ourselves having to take action urgently, it's because the bill that was tabled does not meet the needs.

I have a question for the Liberals.

Do you intend to approve the bill as is or are you going to table some amendments?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, you need to direct your questions to the Chair first, as you know.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You're right, Mr. Chair.

So, Mr. Chair, could you ask the Liberal Party whether it intends to table any amendments?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We are also fortunate to have the opportunity and the luxury of having excellent witnesses, and you can ask them questions if you wish.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Ms. Roy and Mr. Dupuis, You spoke about immigration, and I think that aspect is highly important. You suggested targets to make up for lost ground. I fully agree with you. I would like to assure you that we agree on the six amendments that you have proposed. We are going to support you on that and will present them.

In connection with immigration, in the amendment that you proposed, you said the following in paragraph 44.1(2)(b): "a statement that the Government of Canada intends with the policy to ensure the restoration and growth of the demographic weight of French linguistic minority communities in Canada."

In my view, this lacks teeth. Wouldn't it be preferable to have more binding requirements obliging the government to take action in order to achieve outcomes?

[Liane Roy]

Of course, by asking for the Treasury Board to act as a central agency for all parts of the act, we are requesting accountability for the full implementation of the act.

We took it for granted that there would be accountability measures for everything that we were proposing. That being the case, we support anything that will help to achieve that objective.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

We agree.

Philosophically speaking, and in general, we believe that the bill has three objectives. It's intent is to promote and protect the French language, which is the more vulnerable of the two official languages. I would add that it is in decline.

What will the current bill do, on the day after it receives royal assent, to stop the decline of French here in Canada?

[Alain Dupuis]

Several measures in the bill will get things moving. Is there something more we can do to stop the decline? Yes, absolutely.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

What suggestions do you have?

We are here to give the bill more teeth. That's our goal. What can you suggest to us that would, on the day the bill is adopted, stop the decline of French? It is certainly something that needs to be addressed urgently.

I believe we have already discussed the idea that there should be an amendment to review the act every five years rather than every 10 years. Could you talk about that?

[Liane Roy]

The six amendments we are proposing would help stop the decline, or at least slow it down. If we build it back up and increase the demographic weight of francophones, it will certainly help stop this decline.

That's only one example, but what we are proposing is a combination of things. That's why we've been talking about pivotal systemic changes in our six recommendations.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Roy and Mr. Dupuis.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

You had 15 seconds left.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I'll make use of them, Mr. Chair.

If you have any other suggestions about how to give this bill more teeth, we'd be more than receptive. Please send them to the chair.

[Alain Dupuis]

I think the committee needs to think about one question: are we living in a country where it's possible, universally, to learn French?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Dupuis.

Mr. Drouin has the floor for four minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank my colleague from the opposition party for asking certain questions.

We' re going to propose amendments. Needless to say, we need to know when we are going to do the clause‑by‑clause study of the bill. The options suggested are 28 hours, 22 hours, and 15 hours. So my question to him is, how much time do we have to study Bill C‑13? He should know when the government is going to table amendments.

I'm sure that we will be able to support some of the amendments proposed by the FCFA and that we'll be able to debate others. That means we need to know when we're going to debate these amendments. At the moment, we know don't know when we're going to do it.

I'll get back now to the heart of the matter.

I'd like to raise the issue of immigration. One of your amendments is to replace, in the preamble, "that immigration is one of the factors that contributes to maintaining or increasing" with "to ensuring the restoration and growth of" the demographic weight of those communities.

It seems to me, Ms. Roy and Mr. Dupuis, that you spoke about the importance of the Action Plan on Official Languages. But an act without funding is an act that fails. In your view, how important is it to have funding to support Bill C‑13?

We've seen it in the past, and I've heard it from your predecessor. The Action Plan on Official Languages was frozen for several years. That was harmful. The question of immigration is a difficult one. I've heard teachers in New Brunswick say that their little kiosks are set up right beside the big Quebec kiosk. It's very hard for them to attract francophone immigrants. The act needs to change, but what can be done to attract more francophone immigrants?

For me, it's like talking about my child's survival. It's important to me.

[Alain Dupuis]

It's going to be absolutely essential to properly fund this policy, up to a few tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars, through separate programs that will meet the immigration needs of the communities, with the leverage and powers required for francophone communities to select whom they want. An economic program is needed to meet the labour needs of Canada's francophone communities. You also discussed resources for the communities to do promotional work abroad, and also to build capacity for processing visas abroad. At the moment, the office in Dakar is overwhelmed. It processes visas from 16 or 17 sub-Saharan African countries, most of which are francophone. We need to rethink the country's francophone immigration policy from A to Z. We need a policy, the resources, and the leverage to take action.

We have never done these three things, and that's why we have failed.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Exactly. The provinces use a point system for immigration, among other things.

If the federal government were to adopt the amendments that you are proposing with respect to francophone immigration policy, in Bill C‑13, do you think it would meet its objectives? If not, can we allow those provinces interested in francophone immigrants more latitude? What's important, no matter who is responsible for immigration, is to have francophone immigrants come to Canada.

[Alain Dupuis]

I think we need to develop a policy that has national targets, as well as quotas. If we give immigrant selection powers to the provinces and territories, then fixed criteria and quotas for francophones are needed so that all of our communities can grow.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, colleagues, for these excellent questions.

Thanks also to the representatives of the FCFA. Some members of this committee have worked alongside you for a long time. We've been able to observe all the progress you've made. That's five years of history and experience. I believe everyone around the table noticed it.

Official languages always generate heated debate. I'd like to thank you today for your excellent work. What happened here today is very important.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'm going to be brief, Mr. Chair. I have sent in a motion that we should be able to discuss on Monday. I did not present it today. I wanted to have the time for us to debate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's fine. Thank you..

The meeting is adjourned.