Evidence of meeting #33 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The federal government is elected mainly by Canada's English-speaking majority. The government imposed a constitution that undermines Quebec's language laws. The government imposed the Official Languages Act, the superseding legislation because the federal government supersedes Quebec.
Isn't that a lack of respect for the rights of Quebec, the minority? Furthermore, doesn't that violate the Quebec people's right to self-determination?
Full Professor, Faculty of Law, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
You certainly raise an interesting point.
It's always important to be clear when discussing the right to self-determination. On one hand is the right to external self-determination, which is basically akin to secession. On the other is the right to internal self-determination, the exercise of governance, say, by a people in control of a federated state.
In this case, we are talking about internal self-determination. I agree that having a Canadian constitution that has been adopted by the other provinces and by the federal government, without Quebec's consent, is a violation of the principle underlying the right to internal self-determination. That's problematic for federalists and sovereignists alike, especially because the Constitution results in a loss of protection of the French language in Quebec. That's where the use of parliamentary sovereignty, in other words, the notwithstanding clause, comes into play.
Since Quebec's Charter of the French Language was passed in 1977, particularly after the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was passed in 1982, judges have had considerable influence over Quebec's language policy. That has systematically led to declining protection for the French language in Quebec, and census data now illustrate the impact of that decline.
Under the current model, authority is delegated, and the final say often goes to judges, not lawmakers. Judges, especially those who sit on the Supreme Court, wield tremendous power. If that model worked well, striking the right balance between the protection of francophones' rights, the protection of anglophones' rights, the protection of individual rights and the protection of French as a common good, the census data would show as much. We would know it. That model isn't working, though, so it's time for a rethink. Quebec lawmakers should have more power, and judges should have a little less because the system isn't working.
In theory, a neutral arbitrator to protect fundamental rights is a good idea. In theory, it's great. When that idea is put into practice, however, the outcome is revealed by the latest census data, a disastrous situation for French.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you, Mr. Rousseau and Mr. Beaulieu.
Your time is up, Mr. Beaulieu. Time certainly flies.
We now go to Ms. Ashton for two and a half minutes.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Rousseau, you started talking about three things the bill should include to better protect French. You mentioned immigration.
Let's say the federal government approved more study permit applications from French-speaking African students or offered more consular services in Africa. Would that help slow the decline of French in Quebec?
Full Professor, Faculty of Law, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
You're right that francophone immigration plays an extremely important role. In fact, the Quebec government is aiming to increase the percentage of francophone immigrants.
At the same time, it ties in with what I said earlier. I may have been referring to the other provinces when I said it, but it also holds true for Quebec, albeit to a lesser extent. When you have francophones being anglicized at a certain rate, no matter how many francophone immigrants you bring in, it won't fix the problem. I realize that Quebec has a lower rate of anglicization than the other provinces, but it's still something that happens in Quebec.
Francophone immigration is really part of the solution, not all of it. It won't help to put all our eggs in that basket, because of the anglicization of francophones. Whether they arrived yesterday from French-speaking Africa, Lebanon or elsewhere or whether they've been here since the 17th century—when the anglicization of francophones began—the problem remains, and immigration alone won't fix it.
That's why it's so important to fight on both fronts, but yes, francophone immigration is one of those fronts.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB
To your point, I would say that most Franco-Manitobans and Franco-Ontarians are bilingual, but it doesn't mean that they don't live in French. What those communities are telling us is that they need more francophone immigrants and more support for integration services. They say that making services available in French is important to stop the decline of French.
You said francophone immigration doesn't stop the decline of French, but communities are telling us the opposite. Why do you have a different view?
Full Professor, Faculty of Law, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
What I would say is that francophone immigration can help slow the decline of French, but as long as francophones are being anglicized, francophone immigrants will be affected—it's inevitable.
Yes, francophone immigration will slow the decline of French, but if you want to stop—not just slow—that decline, you have to target more than just francophone immigration.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you, Mr. Rousseau.
Thank you to the witnesses who appeared by video conference, Mr. Rifai and Ms. Warten.
If you think of anything else that you should have mentioned, please provide the extra information to us via our clerk. She will provide it to all members of this committee.
The same goes for you, Mr. Rousseau. I know there's a lot more we could talk about. You seem to be just as passionate as our young witnesses. If you think of anything else the committee should know, please feel free to send the information in writing to the clerk. She will make sure the committee members get it.
My infinite thanks to the committee members for being so disciplined and sticking to their allotted time.
We are ending late, so I apologize to all the technicians.
The meeting is adjourned.