Evidence of meeting #33 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Raymond Théberge  Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Arielle Warten  Sociology Student, Youth Advisory Committee, Bishop's Forum, As an Individual
Houston Rifai  Public Policy and Public Administration Student, Youth Advisory Committee, Bishop's Forum, As an Individual
Guillaume Rousseau  Full Professor, Faculty of Law, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the 33rd meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to the Standing Order of Monday, May 30, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of Bill C‑13, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act, to enact the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act and to make related amendments to other Acts.

Today's meeting is in hybrid format, pursuant to the motion adopted by the House on June 23, 2022. Members may take part in person or through Zoom.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules for the witnesses and members.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the videoconference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. Please mute your mic when you are not speaking.

For interpretation, those participating through Zoom have the choice, at the bottom of their screen, between three channels: floor, English or French. Members attending in person in the room can use their headset after selecting the channel desired.

A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. Members in the room who wish to speak need only raise their hands. Members participating via the Zoom application must use the “Raise Hand” function. The clerk of the committee and I will do our best to follow the order. Thank you for your patience and understanding in this regard.

Pursuant to our routine motion, I wish to inform the committee that all witnesses have completed the required login tests prior to the meeting.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses in the first panel, who represent the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages.

We have with us Raymond Théberge, Commissioner of Official Languages, whom I welcome to the committee. We also have Isabelle Gervais, Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch; Pierre Leduc, Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Communications Branch; and Pascale Giguère, General Counsel, Legal Affairs Branch.

Mr. Théberge, you have a maximum of five minutes for your opening statement. The floor is yours.

11 a.m.

Raymond Théberge Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Mr. Chair, honourable members of the committee, good morning.

First, I would like to acknowledge that the land on which we are gathered is part of the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishnaabeg people, an Indigenous people of the Ottawa Valley.

I'm very pleased to be with you today to present the results of my in-depth analysis of the government's proposed measures in Bill C‑13. In my brief, entitled “Seizing a Historic Opportunity: for a Complete Modernization of the OLA”, I explain my position and make a series of recommendations to strengthen Bill C‑13.

If passed, this bill has the potential to transform Canada's language policy in order to advance our official languages and to better defend the language rights of Canadians. The time to modernize the act is long past due. The most recent language data from the 2021 Census clearly shows that the decline in the demographic weight of Francophones relative to that of English speakers is a major concern. The time to act is now.

Although Bill C-13 is very promising, there are some measures in it that could be improved and clarified. There are also other measures that are not included in the bill that I think should be added.

Here are a few examples.

Bill C-13 does not include any measures to modernize the core components of the act: communications with and services to the public and language of work. As I point out in my brief, this omission is one of the weak points in the bill.

I believe that federal institutions' obligations and terms of language of work and communications with the public also need to be better aligned. Let's take the example of a federal public servant who holds a bilingual position in a unilingual work area. Currently, he or she must serve the public in both official languages but does not have access to work tools and supervision in the language of his or her choice. The act must ensure that work tools in both official languages are available so employees can provide quality service to the public.

I also think that Bill C‑13 should enshrine in the act a duty for federal institutions to draft all federal-provincial-territorial agreements in both official languages and to include enforceable language clauses in those agreements.

However, although the bill proposes to strengthen federal institutions' responsibilities to take positive measures, these obligations are still discretionary and do not fully reflect the Federal Court of Appeal's recent decision in the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique case.

Another aspect of the bill that could benefit from some fine tuning are the measures to improve governance, meaning the way the federal government ensures that the act is implemented effectively. I strongly believe that the act would be greatly improved if responsibility for its governance were assigned to a central agency that had the authority and legitimacy to strengthen accountability mechanisms and to ensure federal institutions' compliance.

In my opinion, the Treasury Board of Canada is in the best position to assume this important responsibility. There is considerable overlap in Bill C-13 between the Treasury Board's responsibilities and those of Canadian Heritage. This results in two separate entities being responsible for the implementation of the act, which is problematic when trying to determine who has the final say.

I am, however, very pleased that the government is giving more teeth to the act by granting me a variety of more binding compliance mechanisms, such as the power to impose monetary penalties, enter into compliance agreements and make orders. The addition of the power to impose administrative and monetary penalties on Crown corporations and other entities operating in the transportation sector that do not meet their language obligations is a step in the right direction. However, the scope of this provision is too narrow, which greatly diminishes the potential to change behaviours elsewhere within the government.

I am therefore recommending that the power to impose administrative monetary penalties be expanded to apply to all federal institutions with obligations related to language of work and services to the public. At the very least, these penalties should apply to businesses that are subject to the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act.

Adding new powers to my toolbox will undoubtedly help me to better ensure compliance with the act. However, it will require the allocation of additional financial and human resources to my office.

The volume of complaints we receive has risen significantly over the past few years. This makes for a sometimes difficult work environment for my team of investigators, which adds a certain amount of pressure on them. It is therefore crucial that our resources be adapted to this new reality and to our new powers so that we can continue to protect Canadians' language rights effectively.

Your committee's consideration of Bill C-13 brings us one step closer to the finish line. However, there are still a number of stages to go before it is passed. The ball is now in your court, and I urge you to seize the historic opportunity before you today to make this bill a success for Canada's official languages.

Thank you for your attention. I will be very happy to answer your questions in the official language of your choice.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you, Commissioner.

As usual, each of the parties will have six minutes in the first round of questions.

Our first vice-chair, Mr. Godin, will ask the first questions.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for taking part in this exercise, Commissioner. It's always a pleasure to have you here in the committee.

At the end of your statement, you said that the modernization of the act was a historic opportunity. Should we do it quickly or thoroughly?

11:10 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

We've done a lot of work for the parliamentary committees, the communities and many stakeholders in recent years, and many reports have been proposed, prepared and submitted. Now I think we're at the action stage.

I propose a number of amendments in the brief I've submitted to the committee. It's important to bear in mind that Bill C‑13 is an improvement over the earlier Bill C‑32, which was intended to be an improvement on the present Official Languages Act. The time to act is now.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Commissioner.

We share that view: it's time to act. That's what we're doing right now, but we must nevertheless take the time to do it right. We're relying on what's been done in the past to improve the act. We have a common objective.

You mentioned in your speech that governance of the act would be vastly improved if responsibility for it were assigned to a single agency, and you suggested the Treasury Board. Do you think that's essential to making Bill C‑13 effective?

11:10 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

What's extremely important at the outset is to establish the necessary structure to ensure it's implemented in the best possible way.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I'll repeat my question, Commissioner: is it essential to making this bill effective and impactful?

11:10 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

The bill must absolutely be effective and impactful.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Do you think that's an essential condition?

11:10 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

It has to have an impact.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

All right, you don't want to answer, but, reading between the lines, I see what you mean. Thank you very much.

As you can understand, we have limited time at our disposal, which is why I'm asking my questions in quick succession.

Will the rollout of Bill C‑13, amended in accordance with your recommendations, put an immediate stop to the decline of French in Quebec and across Canada? We're relying on the results of the last census, but we didn't need that to know French was declining. We knew it long before the census, and the decline's accelerating.

11:10 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

I think the decline will continue if we do nothing. In its proposed or amended form, the bill will definitely help slow or reverse the decline of French in Canada.

We also have to view the bill in conjunction with the government's action plan for official languages. Those are the government's two levers.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Commissioner, the Conservative Party has three objectives: to stop the decline of French, which is the only official language that's declining, to promote both official languages, and to protect both official languages for as long as we decide that Canada is a bilingual country.

Will Bill C‑13 help stop the decline of French immediately after it's passed?

11:10 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

It's hard to say whether that will happen immediately after it's passed, but I'm satisfied it will happen over time.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you.

The Commissioner of Official Languages would be granted new powers under the bill. I think we should give you more powers, and I entirely agree with what you're suggesting.

However, consider this example. If the Regina airport tries to hire bilingual employees but can't find any and then reports the situation to the parties concerned, your office, the Treasury Board, Canadian Heritage or the Minister of Official Languages, do we shut the airport down?

11:10 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

Absolutely not.

We have to establish the necessary infrastructure so we can train a bilingual labour force, particularly through the primary, secondary and post-secondary education systems. We have to find ways to provide language training that produces that bilingual labour force. One thing's for sure: Canada definitely needs a bilingual labour force.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Canada urgently needs a labour force, period, but a bilingual labour force even more. You're absolutely right.

In my example, I wanted to know if we should shut down the airport, give it more time or grant an exception.

11:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

We could reach a compliance agreement with the airport and establish a timetable allowing it time to comply with statutory obligations.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

What you're suggesting doesn't appear in the present act, does it?

11:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

No, it's not in the act. We're making recommendations.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

You discussed the importance of language clauses. I absolutely agree with you on that. If the federal government can't uphold the official languages, who will? I think it has a responsibility to include language clauses in the act.

However, it must not interfere in the jurisdictions of the provinces and territories. How then can language clauses be incorporated in federal-provincial-territorial agreements without encroaching on provincial jurisdictions?

11:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

We already have examples where…

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

That's an excellent question, but we'll have to come back to it a little later.

11:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Raymond Théberge

I had a good answer for him.