Official Languages Committee on Dec. 8th, 2022

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's not what I said.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'm just as much a Quebecker as you.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I didn't say you weren't.

You always respond with accusations, like the Quebec Community Groups Network, the QCGN, and the other organizations, which suggest that we're intolerant.

I'm not intolerant at all. Making French the common language is the essential condition for including all Quebeckers, including anglophones.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'm living proof because I didn't speak a word of French when I arrived in Quebec, and I consider myself a francophone.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's great. You're an example.

However, stop taking measures to promote the anglicization of newcomers. That's what I'm asking you to do.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Ms. Ashton will ask the next questions.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Many witnesses here have described the disastrous state of French-language instruction in official language minority communities across Canada. Rights holders struggle to enrol their children in many regions, and francophile families are being forced to abandon their dreams of having a bilingual family.

In spite of that, no witness has painted us a picture of a government that listens and is involved in funding francophone schools in order to facilitate the international recruiting of French-language teachers.

What would you do to reverse that situation?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

Once again, my colleague will be able to answer that question in detail.

You've raised a very good point: the importance of learning another language as soon as possible at a young age. That's true in Quebec and elsewhere. The challenge for the francophone communities outside Quebec is often access to child care or to an education system that enables children to learn the language early on, something they will have for the rest of their lives.

The Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship was here this week, but I wasn't here to hear his testimony. However, I know from having spoken to him that he has a very ambitious vision for international recruitment in order to bring in more francophone immigrants.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Briefly, francization programs that are adapted to Quebec anglophone workers who aren't newcomers are rare, even nonexistent. Will you be part of the solution and ensure that all Quebeckers, including newcomers from other provinces and outside Canada, can learn French?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We will always be part of the solution, Ms. Ashton. The Canadian government currently transfers approximately $700 million a year for francization, which is virtually equivalent to the entire budget of Quebec's Ministry of Immigration, Francisation and Integration.

My colleague regularly speaks with officials from that ministry, and I occasionally do as well. I speak with them in my capacity as lieutenant. We will always support Quebec on francization.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You still have 20 seconds.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I just want to point out that the concerns I've expressed are those of the communities and that they have emerged from the testimony of a number of witnesses. We hope that the future won't be more of the status quo. We need a much stronger act to make sure we put a stop to the decline of French.

That includes francization programs in Quebec and across Canada.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We all agree on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, everyone.

We will now suspend briefly to allow Mr. Rodriguez and his team to leave the room and Ms. Petitpas Taylor and her team to arrive.

We now suspend momentarily.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We will now begin the second hour.

Minister and Ms. Boyer, Ms. Mondou and Ms. Boily, welcome to the committee. It's always a pleasure to meet with you, to see you and to hear you.

Minister, go ahead with your presentation, following which we will go to questions. You have five minutes.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll do it calmly.

Good afternoon, members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to appear today.

I would first like to take a moment to acknowledge that we are gathered on the traditional unceded territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin people.

We have made considerable progress since I last appeared before this committee in March. In May, I began national consultations on the next action plan for official languages. They were held across the country and culminated in the official languages summit in Ottawa, which was attended by nearly 300 stakeholders.

During those 22 virtual and in-person consultations, more than 6,500 participants painted comprehensive pictures of their communities, the challenges they face and the opportunities available to us. In the next few days, we will be releasing the Report on the 2022 Cross-Canada Consultations on Official Languages, outlining the key themes that the communities raised during our discussions.

We know that much hard work is still needed in order to move forward with our official languages action plan for 2023 to 2028, which will help put in place many ideas and initiatives that are at the centre of the modernization of our Official Languages Act.

I am aware that, although we have made progress, we still have a great deal of work to do to achieve our official language objectives.

Like you, I'm very concerned by the 2021 census data released in August and last week. With only 8 million francophones in Canada living in a sea of more than 360 million anglophones across North America, there is an urgent need to restore our demographic weight. If we do nothing, the decline could worsen. Consequently, our government has committed to stepping up efforts to ensure that does not occur. We must therefore work together with our partners, the provinces and territories to implement strategies that enable us to reverse this trend. I sincerely believe that only by working together can we all have a genuine impact in the coming years. The published 2021 census figures remind us how important it is to pass Bill C-13 now.

In fact, I have heard this frequently from communities across the country. Groups like FCFA, AFO and SANB have told us that they want to see Bill C-13 adopted quickly because the federal government needs to play its part in supporting official language minority communities across the country.

Expectations of the modernization and strengthening of our language regime are great, and rightly so, considering the enhanced powers of the Commissioner of Official Languages, new rights regarding the language of work and being served in French by federally regulated private businesses, increased compliance by federal institutions regarding official languages and the adoption of a policy on francophone immigration.

It's clear that Bill C-13 provides us with the tools we need to achieve these goals and to ensure that both our official languages are supported. That is what we need to do, and that is why we need to adopt Bill C-13 without any further delay.

Linda Cardinal, an informed voice of the Canadian francophonie, reminded us of this fact in the following terms when she appeared before the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages: "The longer it takes to pass this bill, the higher the price francophones will pay. When you can’t move forward, you aren’t treading water. …you’re falling behind."

As a proud francophone and Acadian who grew up in a minority community, I understand what a constant struggle this is, and we cannot, for a single instant, cease our efforts to defend our official language minority communities.

That includes both English-speaking Quebeckers as well as Francophones across the country and outside of Quebec.

I would remind you that Bill C-13 is the result of extensive consultations with our partners, the provincial and territorial governments, and with stakeholders across the country. Consequently, we believe that the specific measures proposed in the bill will reflect the needs of the communities across Canada.

As the Hon. Michel Bastarache, former justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, said, "What we have is a bill that will markedly improve the official languages situation in Canada…"

This bill is part of a broader process of modernization that includes a number of administrative measures, associated regulations, and the upcoming action plan for official languages.

Even after this bill is adopted, friends, our work continues.

We will have to define what a positive measure and a region with a strong francophone presence are. That will require hard work and extensive consultation.

In short, our objective remains the same: to pass a bill that is relevant, promising and strong for the benefit of all Canadians.

Allow me to take advantage of my appearance here today to confirm once again my sincere cooperation in making Bill C-13 a reality.

I will be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister.

Each party will have six minutes in the first round of questions.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here today.

We all have the same objective: to work at strengthening bilingualism in Canada, both English and French.

You said in your statement that you had conducted many consultations. I believe that's true because we've seen your itinerary. You have a very busy schedule. So I'm satisfied that you met with the representatives of organizations.

However, I'd like to know something. We've had the white paper, BillC-32 and the consultation that you conducted this past year. Did you hear loud and clear what the representatives of the official language minority communities told you?

I'm going to talk to you right now about the first demand of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne, the FCFA. It has requested that the Treasury Board be designated as the central agency responsible for implementing Bill C-13. Do you support that request, which I believe is unanimous among all the communities represented by the FCFA?

We can see that there's some confusion. Earlier the Minister of Canadian Heritage didn't seem to be aware of the issue. He gave you all the responsibilities, but your position isn't mentioned in the bill. He has no powers.

Would you be inclined to amend the bill to implement the FCFA's first recommendation?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

First, I want to clarify the comments that were made this morning, particularly concerning the central agency. I believe that's what you want to discuss.

You have to understand that we're establishing the Treasury Board's role so that it will act as a central agency. We're going to give it more powers, particularly monitoring, audit and evaluation powers. Remember that the Treasury Board is in Ottawa. I'm the Minister of Official Languages, and that authority has been given to me by the Prime Minister. I'm the Minister of Official Languages, not a representative. I wanted to clarify that point. The Department of Canadian Heritage has offices across the country. Consequently, when we work with stakeholders to determine what's happening on the ground, its offices are very well positioned to do that.

Allow me to draw a comparison. If we wanted to organize a hockey team, we'd ask the Treasury Board to be the goalie, but we wouldn't also ask it to be a forward. So, in this instance, the Treasury Board will play its role and the Department of Canadian Heritage will do its own job.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

With all due respect, Minister, your comparison doesn't apply. To my mind, the Treasury Board is the general manager, and everything that happens on the ice is directly related to it.

What I understand from your remarks is that you're open to amendments, but not to the entire bill. That's the problem. The status quo won't protect the French language, and that's unfortunately what Bill C-13 proposes.

You said you were the Minister of Official Languages. Can you tell us how that works in cabinet? What aspects of Bill C-13 have you had accepted around the cabinet table? Can you show us the stamp you've put on this bill? When I read the bill, I see that the Minister of Official Languages has no power. The only reason your title appears there, Minister, is that you sponsored the bill.

How can the bill be implemented if the Minister of Official Languages, the Minister of Canadian Heritage and the President of the Treasury Board share authority for its implementation and there are grey areas? When it comes to implementing the act, we'll fall through the cracks and the French language will pay the price.

What powers do you have at the cabinet table? What did you add to the bill? What stamp has the Minister of Official Languages put on Bill C-13?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

First of all, Mr. Godin, as regards my role at the cabinet table, my voice isn't a lesser voice; it carries just as much weight as those of all the other cabinet members.

Bill C-32 was indeed the first take on the modernization of the Official Languages Act. However, I have just introduced the final version of the bill, which contains improvements.

People often ask me if our bill is less rigorous. I was asked that today. However, it's quite the contrary: we've gone to great lengths to ensure that our bill has more teeth.

We've done that, Mr. Godin, because stakeholders across the country have asked us to make amendments to the bill. For example, they wanted us to give the Commissioner of Official Languages more powers and tools to do his job, to clarify the immigration policy and to provide a more precise definition of positive measures.

Since the bill hasn't yet been passed, I hope the committee will work together to pass it as soon as possible.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Minister. We've heard that on numerous occasions. Thank you very much.

I want to know if it's you who withdrew the full power granted to the Treasury Board, which was recommended in Ms. Joly's white paper and as provided in Bill C-32.

Did you withdraw that power under Bill C-13?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Godin, Donald Savoie, who is a social policy and public administration expert, made a clear statement on that issue at our closing summit. He has even worked at the Treasury Board. He previously thought that the Treasury Board could be the central agency—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 10 seconds left, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Pardon me, Minister.

As I understand it, the FCFA was completely wrong.