Official Languages Committee on Dec. 8th, 2022

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Godin, what I'm saying is that both departments have their strengths; I think we have to ensure that they work closely together.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Drouin is the second speaker.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister.

With all due respect to my colleagues, there appears to be a lack of understanding on their part of the way the government operates.

I'll give you an example. The Treasury Board establishes procurement policies, but it doesn't concern itself directly with procurement. Instead, Public Service and Procurement Canada has that responsibility. I believe the relationship is virtually the same in this case.

We seem to be downplaying the role of the Treasury Board. If my memory serves me, improvements have been made to the provisions of part IV, V and VI and to subsection 41(5) of the act. The Treasury Board will now have a duty to intervene, whereas previously it merely had the power to do so.

Would you please explain the difference between what the Treasury Board would now have to do and what it previously could do?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you very much.

Once again, the amendments made to part VII of the act under Bill C-13 will require the Treasury Board to assume its responsibilities, and that really represents a significant addition.

As I'm trying to explain to my colleague, we have really clarified the Treasury Board's role to ensure it takes on additional responsibilities by playing a monitoring, audit and evaluation role.

My department and the Department of Canadian Heritage will ensure that Bill C-13 is implemented. As I said, the Treasury Board office is located in Ottawa and doesn't know the stakeholders across the country. The Department of Canadian Heritage has offices everywhere. We regularly work with our stakeholders.

I'll give you an example. When we conducted Canada-wide consultations for the next action plan, we did it together with the Department of Canadian Heritage. We heard from 6,500 Canadians across the country.

Once again, if the Department of Canadian Heritage and the Treasury Board do their jobs, we'll be able to promote our two beautiful official languages effectively.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We've attached importance to the positive measures that the Canadian government as a whole can take to support our official language minority communities.

We've made another change to the Official Languages Act by replacing "positive measures" with "the positive measures". I would never have thought we'd be discussing the grammatical topic of articles, or the lack thereof. Judges have obviously explained the difference and the reason why it's important. You really have defined the positive measures in the new Bill C-13.

What will happen to the definition of those positive measures once Bill C-13 is passed?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

We waited for the Gascon judgment before we introduced Bill C-13 because we wanted to be sure that our bill would be aligned with it. We received it, and that's exactly what we did.

Once the bill is passed, we will make regulations to clarify what those positive measures will be. Like you, I'm eager to continue the work that remains to be done and to clarify that definition.

Another element that we'll have to clarify is the meaning of "a strong francophone presence" outside Quebec. We'll have to conduct another consultation in order to frame and specify what that means.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'd like to say something about the court challenges program, since it's also related to Bill C-13. I personally benefited from that program because my child was born in a hospital that had applied to it. As a result, we were able to be served in French without applying to it ourselves.

The program hasn't always been around; we're the ones who brought it back. It's important that official language minority communities have access to this kind of program. I want to emphasize that because, without it, I would never have been served in French. Montfort Hospital would not still be in existence without the efforts of Gisèle Lalonde, whom I thank.

We've often discussed the issue of bilingual judges, one of whom our government has appointed.

Why do you think it's important for Bill C-13 to help resolve the bilingualism of judges issue?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

With respect to access to justice, we must ensure that the judges who sit on Canada's highest court are able to hear cases without the aid of interpretation. This is a fundamental right.

We also want to make sure this right is embedded in Bill C-13. All the judges we've appointed to the Supreme Court of Canada since coming to power are bilingual.

Canada is a bilingual country, and we must ensure that Supreme Court judges are bilingual and that they can do their work without the aid of interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Petitpas Taylor.

The next questions will come from the second vice-chair of the committee, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here to answer our questions.

Minister, I have asked you a dozen questions in the House. Earlier we heard your opening statement. Nowhere in it did you say that you're adopting the measures that the Quebec government requested. Your intentions are good, and you acknowledge the decline of French, among other things, but you haven't responded to Quebec's requests.

How many of Quebec's requests have you answered?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Beaulieu.

Today I have more than 30 seconds to answer your question.

What we're saying isn't just a lot of fine words. We absolutely intend to do all we can to protect and promote French across the country, including in Quebec.

We acknowledge that the French language is declining. The census data were published in August and clearly showed that we have to do more to protect and promote French.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

If I may say, Minister, you're still speaking in generalities.

I asked the following question: how many of Quebec's requests have you answered?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Under our new act, we'll be able to ensure that federally regulated private businesses—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's not a response to Quebec's requests at all. It actually denies Quebec's main request, that the Charter of the French language apply to federally regulated businesses. That will enable federally regulated businesses like Air Canada to avoid complying with Bill 101.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Our new bill will secure the right of the employees of federally regulated private businesses to work in French and to be served in French. Our regime is aligned with Quebec's. We wanted to ensure that one regime wasn't more permissive than the other, and that's exactly what we've done.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's not at all the case.

The purpose of the Charter of the French language is to make French the language of work. For example, it requires that the French language predominate in signage and aims to make French the common language. Your act is designed to protect the French language, and it also protects English.

For example, some of the clauses of the bill provide that people who don't know French must be allowed to continue working without learning it. That simply won't support French in Quebec.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Beaulieu, I repeat: we have made sure that our regime clearly aligns with Quebec's because we don't want one regime to be more permissive than the other.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It doesn't align very well with Quebec's. In fact, all stakeholders in Quebec agree that the Charter of the French language applies to all businesses located in Quebec.

You can't name me a single Quebec government request that you agree with. Since you've received the amendments the Quebec government has proposed, I ask you to name one that you have accepted.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

We've done a number of things to support the French language in Quebec.

The first is our francophone immigration policy. We recognize that the demographic weight of francophones has declined in our country. We're introducing an ambitious immigration policy because we want to restore that demographic weight.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You're just talking about francophone immigration outside Quebec. We need francophone immigration to Quebec. The federal government's actions undermine the Quebec government's attempts to recruit more francophone immigrants.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

We recognize that French is the minority language in Canada. The positive measures to combat the decline of French will be taken not only outside Quebec, but also in Quebec itself.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

The measures taken in Quebec will support English.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Absolutely not. We're talking about positive measures.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Absolutely not.

I can name you all the programs. It's the anglophone education system that's being funded. There is English-language instruction in francophone schools.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Today Mr. Rodriguez discussed the investments made in Quebec for francophones. Let's not forget that we want to achieve substantive equality in Canada between the English and French languages.

We acknowledge that we need to take positive measures to ensure we achieve substantive equality for French. That's not just outside Quebec.