I just want to come back to the arguments on transparency.
When we ask Canadian Heritage or any other department or agency to name the organizations that received money, we do not get the salary amounts paid by those organizations or any details about the subsidized activities. We do not get any kind of statement on the organization's performance or results.
The transparency argument therefore does not hold water. We know how much money the University of Ottawa received to administer this program, but to get the details, we need to consult the university, which is a third party. It is the same thing for all of the organizations. That is not unique to the court challenges program. That is the reality for any third party organizations. We do not have a statement of results for all of the organizations.
I understand why we are talking about transparency, but we do not even have that level of detail. Even if you make an access to information request, you will not get those kinds of details.