Official Languages Committee on March 21st, 2023

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Exactly. Thank you.

[Warren Newman]

However, I will give you this. What this is concerned with is taking into account context. That's all this is about. It's not about whether another government may one day make an argument that may or may not fly before the courts. From our perspective—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Then why defend the argument?

Anyway, thank you, Mr. Newman.

[Warren Newman]

You're welcome.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Some people have raised their hand, but before going any farther, I would like to tell Mr. Beaulieu that my previous comment about BQ-48 is no longer applicable. You sent a new version, according to which the amendment is an addition, not a substitution. I'd like to point out to the committee members that LIB-25 no longer has an impact on BQ-48.

I'm giving the floor to Mr. Godin now.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In response to my colleague Mr. Housefather's comments, I'd like to remind him of how serious the current situation is.

Quebec is a majority-French province in an English- speaking North American ocean. I think that it's important to begin by acknowledging that. It's perhaps what led our writers to say "including that ... (b) Quebec’s Charter of the French language provides that French is the official language of Quebec". I think it's appropriate for the Charter of the French Language to be mentioned, because it is relevant to the objective of the bill.

Now, Mr. Chair, how can Mr. Housefather propose referring to the Quebec National Assembly in the act without including all the provincial legislatures?

The Charter of the French Language is one aspect. If we want to put the Quebec National Assembly in the act, then all the provincial and territorial legislatures need to be included. In my view, with respect, the amendment you are proposing is not required. It's altogether legitimate to include the Charter of the French Language in paragraph 45.1(1)(b). The situation has to be acknowledged. It also mentions Manitoba and New Brunswick.

As the officials explained, it's not exhaustive. I don't think that placing the Quebec National Assembly in the bill is as strong, and it doesn't clearly reflect Quebec's specific circumstances.

That's what I have to say, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Ms. Lattanzio, you have the floor.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I had a question for Madam Boyer with regard to the understanding of proposed section 45.1 in terms of this idea of co-operation. I seem to see a contradiction, and I'm going to explain myself. It reads:

taking into account the diversity of the provincial and territorial language regimes that contribute to the advancement of the equality of status and use of English and French in Canadian society,

Then I look to proposed paragraphs (a), (b), (c) and (d). As mentioned, (a), (c) and (d) speak to the constitutional element of both English and French. Proposed paragraph (b) only speaks to the Quebec Charter of the French language, which makes it only French. Do you not see a contradiction in terms of the writing of proposed section 45.1, when we're trying to state the advancement of the equality of the state of both French and English?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Lattanzio.

Over to you, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Chair, I haven't had an answer.

Anyone who can answer my question is welcome to do so, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Sorry.

Go ahead, Ms. Boyer.

[Julie Boyer]

I can start off, and I'll see if my colleague Warren Newman wants to add anything.

Thank you for your question and for listening to the answer.

Here I would say that “taking into account the diversity of the provincial and territorial language regimes” is really, in the context of proposed section 45 on the consultation and negotiations, that we shall take into account the linguistic regimes of the different provinces and territories. It's more contextual in nature, and I think that's what my colleague Mr. Newman was referring to earlier.

Is there more you would like to add?

[Warren Newman]

I think that's pretty well the point. You have to see this provision, proposed section 45.1, as an addition to what is already part of part V. It's taking into account the fact that, in implementing this part of the act, with all its broad range of outreach, where there is consultation and negotiation with the provinces and territories, and negotiating agreements, we'll try, in a practical manner, to ensure the provision of federal, provincial and municipal education services, maybe through synergy and efficiencies, and take into account that each province has its particular linguistic regime.

I don't think it's meant to do more or less than that. The mere mention that the Charter of the French Language is there and has designated French as the official language of the province's administration, I don't think has any more weight than the fact that we also take into account other aspects. Quebec is also mentioned in the first clause. English and French are used in the houses of the legislature in the enactment of legislation and before the courts of Quebec.

This is part of the overall balance that is taken into account.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I have a follow-up question, if you will allow me.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes, Madam Lattanzio, go ahead.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Newman, thank you for your answer, but I feel that, to have clarity, we either enumerate all of the linguistic regimes and, therefore, it would be a very exhaustive list, or add (b), which really does not add much. It doesn't clarify. It doesn't do much to ensure that there would be this co-operation.

That's my understanding of your answer. Am I correct?

[Warren Newman]

Thank you.

I don't think there's much more I could add. It is a legislative policy choice to mention and highlight the Charter of the French Language.

Yes, one could be exhaustive. It would be a very long provision if that were the case. Already, the opening words, with the use of the word “including” is sufficient, in our view, from a legislative point of view. The policy is a matter for political actors.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Madam Lattanzio.

Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I am astounded that some people want to exclude any reference to Quebec's Charter of the French Language. They want nothing to do with French. They have no respect for French.

The Charter of the French Language is the bulwark of the only majority-francophone state in America, and they're not happy about it.

We have never challenged the principle of services in English for anglophones. Unless we succeed in integrating and teaching French to newcomers, we will never make French the common language. It's mathematics. We need 90% of newcomers to adopt the French language if we are to maintain our demographic weight.

What you are doing amounts to openly working to make francophones a minority.

The Charter of the French Language is very important and it has never challenged the provision of services to anglophone minorities or respect for their rights.

This proposal needs to be defeated.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Housefather, The floor is yours.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have never made this a personal issue and I find it deplorable that my colleague is trying to do so. I am altogether in favour of the development of both official languages. We want to promote the vitality of French everywhere in Canada.

Since I've been in Parliament, I have been one of the only two people, the other being Ms. Mona Fortier, to argue that the Divorce Act should give people the right to a divorce in French across Canada. I also proposed some 10 amendments to Bill C-11 on behalf of francophone producers and directors in Canada.

So I'm not at all against French. Indeed, before the adoption of Bill 96, I would never have been against a reference to the Charter of the French Language. Now, however, it's clear that the vast majority of Quebec's anglophone minority are not...

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a point of order.

I sense that we're headed for game of ping-pong and don't think it would be helpful to the work we are doing here in committee. I therefore think, Mr. Chair, that we should call the vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Nevertheless, I'm going to let Mr. Housefather continue for a few seconds.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I'll wrap things up, Mr. Godin, and then we can move on to the vote.

I suggested using another way of saying that French was Quebec's official language. Just because we are asking to have this reference removed doesn't change that. Here again, you have an act that has not achieved consensus in Quebec. The vast majority of people in the minority that this act is supposed to be protecting are opposed to it. There is another way of saying the same thing, and that's to say that French is the official language of Quebec, using different words.

To conclude, Mr. Newman, you spoke about the manner in which Quebec is referred to in paragraph 45.1(1)(a), but it's a constitutional provision, the one that establishes the equal status of both languages in Quebec courts and debates in the Quebec legislature. It's not a provincial act. I would go so far as to say that Bill 96 infringes…

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I rise on a point of order, Mr. Chair.

We are straying from the amendment.