Official Languages Committee on Feb. 14th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Power and Ms. Lattanzio.

Our next questioner is our second vice-chair, Mario Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all our guests.

My first question is for Mr. Laplante.

I'd like to know what you think about the positive measures under part VII of the Official Languages Act that help fund English-language schools, promote institutional bilingualism, fund anglophone pressure groups, in particular, and ensure that there are always more English-language health services.

What you think about that?

[Robert Laplante]

That's a series of examples that clearly illustrate the fact that one act can be designed to undo another. The thing about that part of the Official Languages Act is that it actively frustrates some of the legitimate language planning aspirations endorsed by the Quebec National Assembly.

Getting back to the reasons for challenging measures that are funded by pressure groups, the reference points of those reasons are distorted by a misconception of the place of English and anglophone rights in Quebec society. It shouldn't be forgotten that institutional overfunding creates an inequality that undermines social cohesion and inevitably creates two classes of citizens. I believe that's bad for everyone.

That's obviously an extreme view of the disadvantages that francophone minorities face in Canada. The people of British Columbia are a clear illustration of that. For years, they have faced disadvantages, been deprived of their rights and, in particular, suffered declining living conditions that are unacceptable in a democratic society.

We have to correct this conception, which should be based on the asymmetrical, not symmetrical, nature of their conditions. Consequently, if the means to do so must be centralized, they must be designed, seen and implemented with the necessary diligence once it's understood that it's francophone institutions and organizations that need support. It must also be understood that the Quebec National Assembly has and must have every right to conduct language planning within its borders.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You said the act had a design fault. One might even say a democratic deficit, because the anglophone majority has imposed its constitutional law on the francophone minority, which is mainly established in Quebec.

[Robert Laplante]

That introduces a more fundamental bias. The law must be liberating. In a society governed by the rule of law, legal relationships must prevail, not power relationships. Since we have a constitutional order that no Quebec government has accepted, the business of the courts is clearly to interpret inadequate instruments based on a framework that can only foster distortion.

It's not just a matter of good faith or setting an example; it's fundamentally a matter of legitimacy, the legitimacy of acting in favour of French, its protection and development. That issue wasn't resolved by repatriating the Constitution and isn't central to the Official Languages Act.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Laplante.

Mr. Power, the Official Languages Act is designed to assist the francophone and Acadian communities outside Quebec but contributes to anglicization within Quebec. That's a problem that you raised, and it's why we're seeking an asymmetry.

With regard to education in Quebec, anglophones started off with overfunded schools. I seem to remember that the B&B Commission ranked Quebec francophones as earning the twelfth highest average salaries, whereas the situation was completely reversed outside Quebec. Francophones were in a very tough position.

What do you think of the principle of asymmetry in modernizing the act?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 15 seconds left.

[Mark Power]

Part VII is useful for francophone Quebec too. If that part had been drafted better and applied more firmly by the courts, the Netflix issue would have been resolved differently. On a careful reading of section 41 in part VII, even…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Power. Pardon me for interrupting. You'll be able to say more in response to further questions.

We will now wrap up the first round with Ms. Ashton, who will have six minutes. I believe she has a lot of help where she is.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Yes, it's a team effort.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, thanks to all our witnesses.

I'm going to go to you, Ms. Crist. First, I want to thank you for your open letter of last Friday. We're meeting today as part of our study on the decline of French in Quebec and Canada and to discuss the case that was heard in court.

I think the federal government has abandoned its responsibility to provide French-language services to minority communities, which will accelerate the decline of French. I want to read an excerpt from your letter:

The court found that, following adoption of the federal-provincial agreement, the federal government did not have an obligation to ensure that employment assistance services were offered in both official languages pursuant to part IV of the act… because… the Government of British Columbia was not acting on behalf of the federal government in implementing the federal program.

That of course illustrates the importance of the amendments to part VII of the act and the urgent need to include linguistic clauses in the federal-provincial agreements.

Do you think it's normal for us still to be waiting for this modernization in 2022?

[Lily Crist]

Thank you for your question.

I have lived in British Columbia for 25 years, and, no, it's not normal to have to wait that long. For example, we lost some employment services. It's unacceptable that we had to wait 11 years to try a case.

I worked for La Boussole community centre, which has shut down. It provided employment services and specifically dealt with the problems of homeless persons. So the most vulnerable francophones are being attacked.

Consequently, it's essential that the future act that you adopt truly include clear positive measures and a redefined part VII. I'm not a lawyer, but we lack services here on a daily basis [Technical difficulty—Editor] are synonymous with a loss of services related to both employment and homelessness projects.

I think it's essential that part VII be clearly redefined and the act strengthened so we don't have to go to court over every aspect of our lives in British Columbia.

Thank you.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Your testimony was very moving. Thank you for the work you've done over the years and that you continue to do.

[Lily Crist]

Thank you.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

My next question will be for Mr. Power and Mr. Bossé.

Mr. Power and Mr. Bossé, in 2018, you appeared as witnesses when we were studying the need to modernize the Official Languages Act. Nearly four years later, the act still has not been modernized. Is this long delay contributing to the decline of French in Canada?

[Darius Bossé, Lawyer, Power Law]

The day-to-day delays in implementing the modernization of the act obviously causes harm that may at some point become irreparable. Yes, that's unfortunately the case.

We had a chance to see the first version of an attempted modernization of the act at the end of the last Parliament. As my colleague noted, there were many problems with that version. We see now that the communities and organizations have joined forces to inform the government clearly what those problems are and how to solve them.

For example, the Treasury Board's obligations must be more clearly established. Binding directives must be issued precisely to provide a framework for implementing the various parts of the act. The obligation to consult must be clarified. We now know that it's an obligation, as the Court of Appeal stated in its decision. It held that the government had breached its obligation and had to take the needs of the community into account, which it has not done.

In the case of the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique, the FFCB, the government was also required to adopt a linguistic clause under which it could intervene and ensure that the act was properly implemented by the province. In the Court of Appeal's view, however, that had not been done as the obligation to adopt linguistic clauses was not stated in Bill C‑32. These are the kinds of clarifications that the organizations and communities are asking the government to make in order to solve the problems in the next version of the bill to modernize the Official Languages Act. We hope that next version will be introduced shortly.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 50 seconds left, Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

All right.

My last question is for Ms. Crist.

Ms. Crist, you met with Minister Joly to discuss the modernization of the act when she was Minister of Official Languages. What points were addressed during your conversation? Do you feel that some of them were overlooked in the former Bill C‑32?

[Lily Crist]

The four points I discussed in my remarks today had previously been addressed. We don't want to discuss anything new. It's all been said. We clearly need a stronger instrument. It's up to legislators to draft a robust act so we don't have to go to court.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Crist and Ms. Ashton.

We encroached slightly on the first hour of the meeting as a result of the vote. As the witnesses are here, I will exercise my privilege as chair to allow each party two additional minutes to ask questions. I will follow the order and strictly enforce speaking time.

We will begin with Marilyn Gladu.

Go ahead, Ms. Gladu.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I'd like us to be strict about representation. For the second part of the meeting, the Conservatives have five minutes, the Liberals five minutes, the Bloc québecois two and a half minutes and the NDP two and a half minutes. If you allow the Bloc and the NDP two minutes, I suggest you give the Liberals and Conservatives four minutes each.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I think that's a good idea, Mr. Godin.

So we don't encroach too much on the second hour, speaking time in the next round of questions will be allocated as follows: two minutes for the Liberals, two minutes for the Conservatives, one minute for the Bloc québecois and one minute for the NDP. That way, the parties will be duly represented.

Go ahead, Mr. Dalton.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much to the witnesses. I'm happy to see them, especially Ms. Crist.

Ms. Christ, your efforts at the federation, which I believe is celebrating its 75th anniversary, are truly laudable, and I congratulate you on your labours. You work tirelessly for the francophones and francophiles of British Columbia. Padminee Chundunsing testified here last year, and you took up the torch during the pandemic when her term ended.

I little time and many questions. My next question will be for Mr. Power.

Mr. Power, what specific and ongoing measures can we anticipate from the Supreme Court's decision? What exactly will we see that isn't merely a continuation of the present situation.

[Mark Power]

The decision of the Federal Court of Appeal will serve as a laboratory for Parliament. It provides a set of ideas and principles that Parliament can test, as it did with the obligation to consult and linguistic clauses, for example. In a way, the Federal Court of Appeal has handed Parliament a roadmap to help it avoid a decade of litigation by adding to the future Official Languages Act whatever it needs to enable people to live in French in Ottawa, in my case, and in Vancouver. You must absolutely read that roadmap if you want to succeed in modernizing the act.

That's why we've submitted a bound set of documents that I strongly recommend you read. They're accessible in English and French.