Official Languages Committee on June 16th, 2023

[Raymond Théberge]

I've noticed that some provinces are setting targets. For example, New Brunswick is targeting a francophone immigration rate of 30% to strike a balance. Manitoba has already targeted 7%. In Ontario, I believe it's 5%. I feel we need to set targets.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Don't you think that a francophone African immigrant on the Acadian peninsula is more likely to integrate than a francophone immigrant in a part of New Brunswick where very little French is spoken?

[Raymond Théberge]

It comes down to the importance of settlement services in place for newcomers. If they end up in a community where there are no services available to support them, they'll probably leave that community.

By the way, I attended a meeting with new immigrants to Canada. They told me that immigration is a personal life project for them and that when they leave their country, they do it to start a new life. They therefore choose a place where they can be sure they can live that new life.

Immigration is therefore a very personal choice. Immigrants don't choose based on the percentage of francophones in a region, whether it's 5% or 32%. For them, it's a personal life project.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

However, if they find themselves in an environment that doesn't offer services in French, I don't think they will continue to operate in French.

I've heard some criticism of your report on a few occasions. It was about the fact that you don't specify whether the complaints come from francophones who have trouble obtaining services in French or from anglophones who have trouble obtaining services in English.

Is there any data on that?

[Raymond Théberge]

What I can tell you is that, for the most part, there's a lack of services in French for francophones.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

There have been complaints about this within the federal public service in Quebec. Are they mainly francophones who are having trouble working in French?

[Isabelle Gervais, Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

If your question is whether the complaints of federal public servants in Quebec concern the lack of services in French, I don't believe that is the case.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It's more anglophones who make such complaints. I once saw in a survey that a lot of anglophones complained about not being able to obtain enough federal services in English. However, we know that 68% of federal public service positions in Quebec require knowledge of English.

What could be done to provide more services in English?

[Raymond Théberge]

It happens in both languages. Sometimes, in staff meetings outside Quebec, for example, they say “hello/bonjour” and “agenda/ordre du jour”, but the meeting is held in English. There could be a similar situation in Quebec. A Quebec official told me that working in French was not a problem for them, except when they were dealing with federal staff in Ottawa. It would be the same situation: The presentation would begin with “hello/bonjour”, but the rest would take place in only one language.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

On another topic, in terms of francophone immigration, you say that 4.4% is not enough and that it will even lead to a certain decline in francophone minority communities.

In your opinion, what would be an acceptable objective? How could we ensure that these people don't add to the assimilation rate of all francophones outside Quebec?

[Raymond Théberge]

The target should be doubled at least. The Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, or FCFA, says 12%. I believe we need to do a real demographic analysis to determine the impact of that target. We know the consequences of not meeting the target, which would include a shortfall of 75,000 people. The consequences would also be felt over several decades.

Perhaps we should do a better analysis to determine what that target is.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In other words, if the target doesn't change, the decline will continue to accelerate.

Is that correct?

[Raymond Théberge]

Absolutely.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

With regard to Quebec, from what we've seen, it would seem that under the action plan for official languages 2023‑2028, all the funding goes to English.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In your opinion, Mr. Théberge, should anything change in the future or will English continue to be massively reinforced?

[Raymond Théberge]

I feel the action plan was developed based on consultations that took place outside Quebec, with francophone communities outside Quebec and the anglophone community in Quebec. The purpose of the Official Languages Act and the action plan is to support official language minority communities on both sides.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

However, they don't support French in Quebec.

[Raymond Théberge]

The purpose of the action plan is to support official language minority communities on both sides.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Dalton, we're told that you're back with us. You had five minutes left. The floor is yours.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

With respect to federal agencies, Mr. Théberge, could you give us a few examples? Does that also include the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or RCMP?

[Raymond Théberge]

The RCMP is a federal agency subject to the Official Languages Act. We still receive a good number of complaints related to the RCMP.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

How about, for example, transportation, airports?

[Raymond Théberge]

There are 230 federal agencies subject to the Official Languages Act. I can't name them all.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

As for the designated bilingual regions, are they the big cities?

Could you tell us what the bilingual regions are, particularly in British Columbia?