Official Languages Committee on June 16th, 2023

[Raymond Théberge]

Actually, there are no designated bilingual regions in British Columbia. They are mainly the National Capital Region, Greater Montreal and part of New Brunswick. There are none in the west.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I just wanted to clarify that, since you talked about the need to determine the effective use of a language, whether it be French or English. Could you tell me if this also applies to federal agencies in British Columbia?

I know that federal agencies are required to provide services in French to francophones, but I'd like to know whether francophone workers also have the right to speak their language across Canada.

[Raymond Théberge]

A distinction must be made between federal agencies subject to the act, which must provide services in both official languages, and regions designated as bilingual for language‑of‑work purposes. It's not the same thing.

What we'd like is for all public servants, regardless of where they are, to be able to work in the official language of their choice. We're seeing a decline in the use of French in the workplace across Canada. The question of whether they can use the language of their choice in writing was even removed from the survey of francophone public servants. So there's no satisfactory way to measure the use of French. As I've already said, it's considered a somewhat secondary language in the workplace. There's a tremendous amount of work to be done in that regard.

We'd like to ensure that all public servants are able to work in the official language of their choice. One day, service offices should also offer the same level of service in French as those located in designated bilingual regions. A 1977 circular shows where services are provided. The demographics of the country have totally changed since 1977.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Okay.

I mainly have a western perspective. People really want to reinforce French here in British Columbia. Hundreds of thousands of students went to French primary and secondary school to learn and use the language. However, it's always a challenge for this community to develop, even though all those students have followed that path.

Here, especially in Vancouver, other languages are widely spoken, such as Mandarin, Tagalog and Punjabi. Hundreds of thousands of people speak them.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 15 seconds left, Mr. Dalton.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Théberge, you said that 4.4% was not enough. What would be a sufficient percentage for francophone immigration outside Quebec?

[Raymond Théberge]

Yes, 4.4% is not enough. We should at least double that target. Others are talking about 12% or more as a way to get things back on track.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Thank you, Mr. Dalton.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I feel sorry for your family, Mr. Dalton. Given the three-hour time difference for you in British Columbia, I hope that the Standing Committee on Official Languages doesn't disrupt the Dalton family's sleep or wake-up time.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being with us this morning, Commissioner.

You talked about immigration. I know you have a background in post-secondary education. So you're aware of the labour shortage in French-language education, particularly in immersion programs. I'm talking about those outside Quebec, obviously.

We just heard from the representative of the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine and from other organizations that we need a clear plan not only to recruit teachers and people who want to work in education, but also to ensure that we give them a proper welcome so that they'll want to stay and they'll have the support they need.

Can you tell us how important it is for the federal government to have a strategy focused on education outside Quebec and to prioritize recruiting, welcoming and supporting people in that field?

[Raymond Théberge]

Thank you for the question.

Earlier, I talked about the labour shortage in education and health care. A number of provinces have recruited a lot of nurses from abroad, but they don't seem to be doing the same thing to find teachers. It's crucial that we provide guidance to these individuals, given the whole cultural aspect of what teachers do. If we want to meet the educational needs of the communities, we have no choice but to recruit people from abroad.

We can't expect someone who has just arrived to be able to just walk into a classroom right away. We have to work with the faculties of education and the professional associations on prior learning recognition, which is often a challenge. We should even create an education corridor across Canada to facilitate recruitment of people in this field.

There's a huge shortage of early childhood instructors who teach French or French as a second language. That's where it all begins. If we can do it in health care, why can't we do it in education? We have to wonder why.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much.

With regard to early childhood, can you tell us a little more about the need for a strategy or special attention in this area outside Quebec?

[Raymond Théberge]

Early childhood services are not offered in the official language of choice—I'm talking about French here. If we want to encourage people to learn a language in a minority situation, we need to start as early as possible. We also have to take into account the fact that there are a huge number of exogamous or mixed couples. We absolutely have to maximize the time they spend in a French environment before they start school, at the preschool level.

When there was a shortage of teachers in the past, a number of people who worked in the early childhood stream were requalified to become teachers. So the preschool centres were emptied out. As I just said, with respect to teachers, we have to find a way to go get people where they are. In my opinion, we should have a corridor across the country to recruit people able to work in the early childhood stream. Our early childhood efforts will pay off when kids start school.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

I'd now like to turn briefly to Air Canada. You talked about the complaints that had been filed with the Office of the Commissioner. Last night, the Senate passed Bill C‑13. We hope that you will soon have new powers under the act with respect to Air Canada.

Do you plan to levy administrative monetary penalties on Air Canada if it fails to meet its language-related responsibilities?

[Raymond Théberge]

The administrative monetary penalty regime will not come into force immediately upon royal assent. There will have to be an order in council, followed by regulations. This is not a power that I will be able to use right away. The other mechanisms in the bill will also be very useful for dealing with entities like Air Canada, whether for compliance agreements or orders. The implementation of administrative monetary penalties will follow the implementation of an order in council and the adoption of regulations.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Commissioner.

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

The next round will be five minutes for the Conservatives and the Liberals.

The floor is yours for five minutes, Ms. Gladu.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being with us today.

Mr. Théberge, I'm going to come back to the issue of francophone immigration targets. I support your recommendation to double the target, but what are the obstacles to achieving it?

[Raymond Théberge]

We've seen a number of barriers to achieving that target in the past.

First, we must ensure that we recruit candidates where there are significant francophone populations. In the past, I think we focused on certain European regions, but I often say that the future of French lies in Africa, and that we have to recruit from the francophone pools. There is no doubt about that. IRCC is now focused on Cameroon, but when I was president of the Université de Moncton, we welcomed a lot of students from Côte d'Ivoire, Mali and Senegal. So we have to go where there are pools of potential candidates.

Second, we need to make the process more efficient and faster. We also have to look at the role or place of foreign students who are recruited. We hear some things about the recruitment of francophone foreign students compared to anglophone foreign students. We have to determine their role in the entire immigration process.

Then there's the issue of temporary workers, which is another potential pool. When we recruit people, regardless of the avenue chosen, we must not forget the language aspect. It is important to remember that the 4.4% target refers to permanent residents. There are a number of other sources of immigration to Canada. As I said at the outset, it's very complex, and there are a lot of possibilities in the system.

Of course, there is also the issue of integration. Settlement services have been put in place, and we have to make sure that people have the resources they need to do their job. Are future immigrants aware of the existence of francophone communities outside Quebec? That's the first question. So we have to do a better job of informing people, but we especially have to go where potential candidates can be found.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

That's great. Thank you.

I'll let my colleague Mrs. Vien ask the next question.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much to my colleague.

Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Commissioner, I'd like to ask you two brief questions.

Earlier, you mentioned that roughly 230 organizations were subject to the Official Languages Act, if I understood correctly. Which of these organizations receives the most complaints?

[Raymond Théberge]

I think it's Air Canada.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

That leads me to my second question.

I've noticed lately that when staff greet passengers on a plane, they welcome them and say they are happy and delighted to be able to offer them bilingual service.

How do you take that announcement when you travel by plane, Mr. Théberge? How should it be understood?

[Raymond Théberge]

I take it with much anticipation. I wonder if that will translate into an active offer of service in both official languages. For example, if we are offered a glass of juice, are they going to say “would you like” and “est‑ce que vous voulez”? That's what we call an active offer.

Then, when instructions are given regarding emergency exits, are they given in both official languages? Is there an active offer there as well? That's often what's missing. An announcement is made and, subsequently, when we communicate individually with passengers, there is no active offer of service.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

That's serious.