Official Languages Committee on June 16th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 15 seconds.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I find it rather deplorable that they announce that “today” they can serve you in both languages. That's what I want to point out. It implies that they can serve you in both languages today, but that they don't know about tomorrow. What do you think about that?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's a good question. Unfortunately, we're out of time, Mrs. Vien.

Mr. Commissioner, you'll be able to come back to this later.

The next five minutes go to Darrell Samson.

Mr. Samson, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

I have lots of questions.

Mr. Commissioner, I won't do this every day, but I'll allow you to take 30 seconds of my time, but only 30 seconds, to respond to my Conservative friend.

[Raymond Théberge]

Okay, but that's very short.

I think the answer is quite simple. It shouldn't be specified that services are offered in both official languages today, since that is part of the norm. That's what's normal.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Okay, thank you. You did that very well.

I certainly want to take the opportunity to thank you and your team for the work you've done and continue to do. I know your testimony on Bill C‑13 has been very helpful to us. Finally, here we are, and my colleague asked about the additional powers and tools you have. We're not going to get into that now.

As for the designation of regions, I believe that Isle Madame, a small island of 3,500 people, should be designated a francophone island, because there are 98% francophones there. I throw that in as a little joke, if you will.

There are two important things I want to discuss. As president of the Université de Moncton, you told us that you have welcomed a lot of immigrants. If I may say so, there are many francophone universities, especially outside Quebec, that recruit a lot of francophone immigrants.

Is there an action plan to integrate them? Now, with the express entry program and all the help we give to people to get their permanent residency, are we really working to keep these people in Canada?

[Raymond Théberge]

I think it varies from region to region and from university to university. Obviously, if we want to retain international students with a view to granting them permanent residency, the process has to be started as soon as they arrive, not in their fourth year of study. Contact with the communities needs to be established in their first year of study. However, that's not always the case. What's more, for a very large number of francophone post-secondary institutions in minority communities, international students represent an extremely important source of funding. Clearly, the pool is there.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Yes, there's enormous potential, and perhaps we should focus our energies on those cases, from one end of Canada to the other.

You talked about an early childhood education corridor and the shortage of workers in education, as well as in health, for that matter. Can you tell us more about that? I think that's very important.

I know that, as the superintendent of school boards in Nova Scotia, I doubled my student population in less than a dozen years, simply by introducing an early childhood program in the schools. This program enabled people to integrate in terms of language, culture, and so on. It's incredible.

What can you tell us about that?

[Raymond Théberge]

Obviously, if we want to increase the student population in the school system, we have to start with early childhood, before children go to school. We have to ensure that children have a sufficient command of the minority language to be able to go to school. It's a choice that parents make based on available resources. If there aren't any resources dedicated to early childhood, there's a very strong possibility that they won't enrol their child in kindergarten in French, because they'll tell themselves that the child isn't ready or aren't able to go there. So the sooner you start thinking about it, the better.

We're aware of that. We're well aware of the role of early childhood. However, we have to find human resources. Let me repeat that, at one point, we took everyone who worked in early childhood and gave them a teaching certificate, because there's a shortage of francophone education workers. The corridor I'm talking about has to extend right across the country. Whether it's in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta or British Columbia, it doesn't matter; we have to find a way to feed that corridor.

I think IRCC could certainly develop specific programs to meet those demands.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

In addition to meeting the integration needs in terms of language and culture, we're also looking at the end product, which is to improve the quality of education. So it's really very important not only to integrate these people, but also to offer them quality education in French.

[Raymond Théberge]

The sooner a person takes ownership of the cultural elements of a community, the more quickly they will integrate into it and feel that they belong to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 10 seconds left, Mr. Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Mr. Commissioner, once again, thank you for your work.

What a great day for Bill C‑13! I'm convinced that young children now and in the future will be able to benefit from it for years to come. What I like most about Bill C‑13 is that we'll be able to improve the act in 10 years. That's an important key element.

Even though part of the census was dropped, the data we received last year is correct for the next decade. We can show—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you for your comments, Mr. Samson, but you only had 10 seconds to make them.

We will now go to Mr. Beaulieu and Ms. Ashton.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Commissioner, do you think that maintaining the demographic weight of francophones who primarily use French at home is one of the objectives of the Official Languages Act?

[Raymond Théberge]

Let's look at part VII of the act. In terms of immigration, if we want not only to maintain, but also to re‑establish the traditional demographic weight at a rate of 6.1% or 6.2%, it's clear that we have to maintain the concept of mother tongue. I think that part VII of the act gives us the means to do that.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Do you consider that the language spoken at home is also a valid indicator?

[Raymond Théberge]

The language spoken at home is a very complex indicator. It depends on where you live and who you are. Are you an immigrant or a native speaker of French? Are you an exogamous couple? The language spoken at home is one indicator among many.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In Quebec, we take into account all the indicators, which generally all point in the same direction. For example, in the 2001 census, Statistics Canada data show that there is a decline in terms of language spoken at home or mother tongue, among other things. In fact, the decline is everywhere. The direction is almost always the same, but there are small differences between the indicators.

There is one important issue that is not often discussed. According to the data on language spoken at home, 33% of newcomers, immigrants, use French. According to the new indicator on potential demand, the percentage is much higher. To maintain the demographic weight of francophones in Quebec at its current level, 90% of newcomers would have to adopt the French language.

Since the federal government uses an indicator that includes 33% or more of immigrants to Quebec, isn't the federal government working to reduce the number of francophones in Quebec?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Théberge, you have less than five seconds to answer the question.

[Raymond Théberge]

The agreement between Quebec and Canada must meet Quebec's needs.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Ms. Ashton, the floor is now yours for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to come back to Air Canada.

Commissioner, do you think that the power to impose administrative monetary penalties on certain entities, as indicated in Bill C‑13, will help ensure that entities like Air Canada will provide more comprehensive French-language services?

[Raymond Théberge]

I would venture to guess that the imposition of administrative monetary penalties is an incentive to improve compliance with the act. It's more than that. I feel that Air Canada really needs to develop a culture that values official languages, particularly French. It's an interesting tool, but I'd also like to be able to develop compliance agreements with Air Canada, to issue orders and to see if, in the end, sanctions are really necessary. For the moment, we're a long way from that.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You still have one minute.