Official Languages Committee on June 16th, 2023

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Mr. Laberge, it's always nice to see you. We spent a lot of years together as school board executive directors. Back then, I always had a team in charge of retention. When someone new to the area joined the school board, we would try to find them a buddy quickly, so they would put down roots in the community and not leave. That was one of our strategies.

I just want to make two very important points.

First, the express entry program gives priority to francophones, which is very important. It also gives priority to francophone skilled workers. You may want to look into that. I think school boards could really benefit.

Second, day cares are vital. You can't have French-language schools without francophone day cares. Otherwise, the French system will lose kids.

I'd appreciate it if you could comment quickly on those two points.

[Alain Laberge]

Thank you, Mr. Samson. Yes, it's been a while since we've seen each other. It's always nice to see you as well.

Day cares are vital. As I said earlier, we call it the cradle to the grave continuum, because learning is a lifelong pursuit. I think the expression cradle to the grave captures that well.

The other thing you mentioned was the express entry program, which also helps us recruit people. We do something similar to what you did in Nova Scotia. When newcomers to the province are sent out to rural areas, they often stay with a family for a few months. The two families live together. The newcomers get to know the area and can usually fly on their own afterwards. Nevertheless, the host families need some support as well.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

All right.

Mr. Laberge, what's your relationship with the francophone immigration recruitment agencies? In Nova Scotia, it wasn't great, but we built it up.

We have the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité, or RDEE, and the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle‑Écosse in my province.

What do you have in your province? Actually, it's not so much what you have that I'm interested in. It's more what your school division's relationship with agencies that recruit French-speaking immigrants is like. That relationship is key so that immigrants can do their schooling in French.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 20 seconds to answer.

[Alain Laberge]

We work with the RDEE and Accueil francophone, which provide support to families once they are in our school system.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Laberge.

I know it's tight, but we now go to the Bloc Québécois for a minute and a half.

Over to you, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I will try to be very quick.

My question is for you, Mr. Laberge.

What proportion of francophone immigrants have gone to small towns with a larger francophone community, which offer more opportunities to integrate and a lower likelihood of assimilation?

What percentage of immigrants choose the greater Winnipeg area, where only 25,000 of 750,000 people are francophone and the assimilation rate is above 60%?

[Alain Laberge]

The latest figures put the francophone immigration rate at 4%, and of that, at least 3.4% go straight to Winnipeg or what we call the Winnipeg belt. That leaves 0.6% of the 4% who make their way to host villages, which are mainly francophone villages that are growing, but it's a very small number.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

The rate of language transfer to English or French is taken into account, then.

[Alain Laberge]

Absolutely.

There are so‑called “homogeneous” families arriving, meaning that both parents speak French. However, we have a large wave of families that are increasingly heterogeneous and, for the most part, English is the language spoken at home.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Laberge.

Mr. Beaulieu, your time is up.

Ms. Ashton, you have a minute and a half.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I'd like to heartily thank all the witnesses.

I'll give the last word to Mr. Laberge from the Manitoba community.

What final message would you like to give us?

What should the federal government do to ensure that it's working with you and with francophone communities outside Quebec in order to find solutions to the labour shortage and meet the needs of our schools and day cares?

What would you like to tell us in your closing remarks?

[Alain Laberge]

To conclude, I'd like to say that it's important to work together. We realize that education plays a huge role, but without the other areas under federal jurisdiction, like healthcare or immigration, it's not enough. The key is to work together.

Also, programs should promote the regions. Right now, there isn't really a program that guarantees you an excellent quality of life if you're sent to Saint-Lazare, Thompson or elsewhere. There's no emphasis on fostering that kind of thing, so everyone goes to Winnipeg.

As I said earlier, we work very closely with Accueil francophone, to set up what we call “welcoming cities”. We do bus tours with newcomers, to show them these villages. We've done that in seven or eight villages. We're also working with local mayors and members of the Manitoba Legislative Assembly to ensure that we have French-speaking communities where you can practise a sport or leisure activity, among other things, in French. If we go to Thompson and rely only on the school for speaking French, it won't work. We—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Laberge. I am sorry to interrupt you, but your time is up.

Ms. Ashton, thank you.

Witnesses, Mr. Samson made a comment about the chair being strict, but I want everyone to be able to ask their questions and hear the witnesses' answers. Those are the rules of the game; I'm sorry. Time is a little short, because the Commissioner of Official Languages is about to speak during the second hour of the meeting.

That said, Ms. Ngenzebuhoro, Ms. Nauthoo, Ms. Chouinard and Mr. Laberge, if you have any further information that might enlighten us, please feel free to submit it in writing to our clerk. I would have asked you many questions myself.

I'd like to thank you for your comments, explanations, knowledge and patience.

We will now suspend momentarily, to give the commissioner time to settle in.

Witnesses, you may remain online to hear testimony from the Commissioner of Official Languages.

I hereby suspend the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Dear friends, we will now hear from the Commissioner of Official Languages and officials from the Office of the Commissioner in connection with the study on increasing francophone immigration to Canada and with the annual report 2022‑23 of the Commissioner of Official Languages referred to the committee on Tuesday, May 30, 2023.

I'd now like to welcome some witnesses we receive from time to time. We're always delighted to see them again. So I'd like to welcome Mr. Raymond Théberge, Commissioner of Official Languages; Mr. Pierre Leduc, assistant commissioner, policy and communications branch; Ms. Pascale Giguère, general counsel, legal affairs branch; and Ms. Isabelle Gervais, assistant commissioner, compliance assurance branch.

Mr. Théberge, you're a regular guest of the committee. I'll let you get the ball rolling with a five-minute presentation.

[Raymond Théberge, Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, honourable members of the committee, good morning.

I'd like to acknowledge that the lands on which we are gathered are part of the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabeg people, an indigenous people of the Ottawa Valley.

I'm particularly pleased to be with you today, the day after Bill C‑13 was adopted in the Senate at third reading. We will soon begin a new chapter in the history of official languages, and I'm delighted to be a part of that.

I'll start with my recent annual report, if I may. After more than two years of the pandemic, Canadians have finally been able to return to a certain degree of normalcy and resume activities that were put on hold due to pandemic-related health restrictions. This normalcy has, however, highlighted official language issues that I've repeatedly raised in the past but that are still very much present.

Again this year, I received a significant number of complaints from the travelling public. In 2023, there are no more excuses for federal institutions that provide services to the travelling public. It's long past time for them to take strong measures to ensure they provide their services in both official languages.

I have therefore recommended in my annual report that the President of the Treasury Board and the Minister of Transport develop tools and guidelines related to the language obligations of airport authorities and share them with the airport authorities by March 31, 2024. I've also recommended that the Minister of Transport require airport authorities to submit a plan by June 30, 2025, on how they will fulfill their language obligations to the public.

Another ongoing issue is the lack of respect for the language rights of federal public servants. With the increased presence of technology and the implementation of hybrid work models, our federal public service is undergoing a major transformation. However, we can't let the language rights of public servants fall by the wayside.

I've therefore urged the leaders of federal institutions to ensure that, in regions designated as bilingual for language-of-work purposes, work environments are conducive to the effective use of both official languages.

In my annual report, I've recommended that by the end of June 2025, the President of the Treasury Board, the Minister of Official Languages and the Clerk of the Privy Council work together both to define concrete ways to highlight the role of official languages in the federal public service and to measure the actual capacity of federal public servants to work in the official language of their choice. I've also recommended that the President of the Treasury Board implement her three-year action plan by June 2025 at the latest, to increase compliance with the requirement to objectively establish the language designations of positions in the federal public service.

Whereas we will soon be able to rely on a modernized Official Languages Act, it is crucial that we once again prioritize our official languages and give them the distinct importance they deserve on an ongoing basis.

Let me now turn to the second reason I'm here before you today: francophone immigration to Canada.

As you know, the federal government announced a few months ago that, for the first time in 20 years, it reached its target of 4.4% francophone immigration to French linguistic minority communities. This is a step in the right direction, but we will need to aim for a more ambitious target. At the current rate, the demographic weight of French speakers will continue to decline outside of Quebec.

Our communities could benefit greatly from increased francophone immigration at a time when many fields, such as health care and education, are suffering from labour shortages. We need to ensure that, as soon as they arrive in Canada, French-speaking newcomers are provided with the services they need to integrate fully into our francophone minority communities, as well as any other services they require. It's one thing to welcome them to the country, but we also need to help them thrive in Canadian society.

Francophone newcomers need to see that there's a viable future in French for them in Canada.

I strongly believe that both of our official languages enrich the regions where they're spoken and, in practical terms, offer new social, cultural and economic opportunities. This is why it's so important to ensure effective integration services so that newcomers can contribute to the vitality and development of francophone minority communities.

Thank you for your attention.

I'll be happy to answer your questions in the official language of your choice.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You spoke for 4.59 minutes, you could not have been more accurate. Thank you, Commissioner.

Each party will have six minutes.

We begin with Mr. Dalton from British Columbia. There's a three-hour time difference.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Good morning, everyone.

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

In your opening remarks, you said the following:

I've therefore urged the leaders of federal institutions to ensure that, in regions designated as bilingual for language-of-work purposes, work environments are conducive to the effective use of both official languages.

Later, you mentioned the actual capacity of federal public servants to work in the official language of their choice.

My questions are fairly straightforward.

Which federal institutions are those? Which regions are designated bilingual to work—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We've lost the connection with Mr. Dalton. I will reserve the remainder of his time; he used one minute.

Ms. Lalonde, you have six minutes.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Monsieur Théberge, it's a pleasure to see you again and an honour to have had the opportunity to hear your testimony.

You referred to the historic moment that occurred last night, when the Senate passed Bill C‑13, which was highly anticipated by many of us in French Canada.

As you know, in this bill, we added the obligation to have a francophone immigration policy with targets and objectives.

Could you tell us about the potential repercussions of this obligation and, perhaps, offer some suggestions?

[Raymond Théberge]

Francophone immigration is crucial to the development of our official language minority communities. Indeed, according to statistics, we see that the relative weight of francophone communities is decreasing compared to that of the majority. Developing a francophone immigration strategy will now be an obligation enshrined in law, which is important.

In the Action Plan for Official Languages 2023‑28, there is funding for francophone immigration. So there's a link between the action plan and certain elements of the bill. This is very important. Indeed, during certain discussions, it was said that if there were no resources to implement this policy, it wouldn't get us very far.

On the other hand, though I'm no expert on the subject, I can see that the immigration issue is incredibly complex. There are many immigration categories in Canada, which creates a huge potential pool of immigration candidates, whether they be economic immigrants, refugees, family-sponsored immigrants, temporary workers or foreign students.

One thing is certain, the obligation enshrined in the law demonstrates the government's desire to develop a francophone immigration policy. I would like to see a holistic immigration strategy, distinct from a global immigration policy, that specifically addresses the immigration needs of minority language communities.

I think there are many ways in which Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada can help. I would also point out that this department has enormous discretionary power to choose who is admitted to Canada as an immigrant.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much.

You referred to tangible solutions, specific points. In particular, you talked about the funding for francophone immigration, which I consider historic, $4.1 billion in our Action Plan for Official Languages 2023‑28, and the importance of concrete investment in francophone immigration.

Would you be able to suggest any avenues for the committee to pursue? You know the broad strokes, but would you have any measures to recommend in terms of these new investments for francophone immigration? I know you don't consider yourself an expert on the subject, but I think you have a solid overview of the day-to-day realities and main concerns.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on concrete solutions we could bring to this issue.

[Raymond Théberge]

First of all, I see immigration as a continuum, starting with the selection of candidates and ending with the stage of integration, or settlement, of these people on the ground. It's a very lengthy process.

We need to ensure, for example, that our organizations providing immigrants with settlement services have enough resources to properly support newcomers in their new environment.

One of the key elements is housing. I recently attended a conference on immigration. The issue that kept coming up was housing. People are wondering where they're going to house these new arrivals and how they're going to give them the tools they need to integrate linguistically into the workplace.

If we can't integrate them into our communities by offering this type of program, immigrants may leave these communities and settle elsewhere. We've often seen this in many of our regions.

One thing that's important is that people who move here are looking for a community. They don't want to feel alone in another community. So it's important to have a critical mass of immigrants in our communities.

Also, I think there's the whole issue of employability and recognition of prior learning. I recently read that immigrants' diplomas aren't always recognized and that they work in fields that are completely unrelated to their own specialty.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Thank you, Mrs. Lalonde.

Mr. Beaulieu will now ask questions.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you for your testimony.

I'm going to pick up the pass. You say that it's important people live in a francophone community. However, we're seeing that immigration isn't at all regionalized. There are no targets. Couldn't that undermine the effective recruitment and integration of francophone immigrants outside Quebec?