Official Languages Committee on Feb. 16th, 2022

[Tanya Tamilio]

At the moment, there are no medical services available in French, except for the interpretation service. If you go to a hospital, you can request interpretation in Mandarin. It's a telephone service provided by the Bluewater Health hospital.

Prior to obtaining the designation, we worked with the chief executive officer of this hospital, Mr. Mike Lapaine, a francophone. We asked him whether he could at least consult his employees to see if any of the staff could speak French. There were graduates of French immersion schools, and people with university degrees who had studied elsewhere and were back in the region. We wanted to know, for example, whether in the ultrasound department there were people who could speak French, or nurses who could speak French, and if so whether they could be identified? That would mean that a francophone entering the hospital could find out who could speak French. Nevertheless, for them, it meant additional costs.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Let's switch from the medical field to education. In your introduction, you said that your region had four francophone schools and five immersion schools. Are the four schools you mentioned elementary or secondary? Also, how do things work in terms of education? Do you offer bilingual, immersion or unilingual programs?

[Tanya Tamilio]

We have two francophone elementary schools where, as in Quebec, the teaching is in French all day, except perhaps for 20 minutes in English. We also have two high schools that follow the same teaching format.

And then we have five immersion schools, four of which are elementary and one secondary, I believe.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

You said that there was a shortage of teachers. Do you have trouble finding French-speaking teachers for the two high schools and the two elementary schools?

[Tanya Tamilio]

Yes, Ms. Lattanzio.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Who teaches French in these schools then?

[Tanya Tamilio]

If they can find any, the schools ask francophone parents or francophone professionals to do it…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'm sorry to have to interrupt you, Ms. Tamilio.

The next speaker on the list is our second vice-chair.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

My first question is for you, Ms. Alepin.

With the help of some numbers, Charles Castonguay, Frédéric Lacroix and others demonstrated the decline of French everywhere in Canada and Quebec. Most of the decline in Quebec was in Montreal.

Could you talk to us about how the anglicization of Montreal is being experienced on the ground?

[Marie-Anne Alepin]

First and foremost, I would say that if we really want to secure the future of French in Quebec, we would have to teach French to and integrate 90% of newcomers to maintain our demographic weight. It's mathematics. The witnesses spoke about it.

To get there, the government of Quebec has been working to make French the official common language. That, in fact, is the difficult job that we are trying to do. It's only to be expected that newcomers would tend to want to integrate with the majority. Even though francophones are in the majority in Quebec, anglophones are in the majority in Canada, and even more so in North America. That's where the major challenge lies, because it's also a source of confusion.

As you know, the government of Quebec is trying, through Bill 101, to make French the only official and common language of Quebec, while respecting the historical rights of the anglophone community. For as long as Quebec is part of Canada, however, it will be subordinate to the federal government elected by the anglophone majority, which in an earlier time imposed a constitution and the Official Languages Act on Quebec. The purpose of the latter is to make English the official and common language. The federal language policy ensures not only that anglophones can receive services in English—already done by Quebec—but also that anyone who wishes can use English in public.

Secondly, as I said a little earlier, the decline of French is really perceptible. It's not just a matter of statistics. We conducted a major survey with the Journal de Montréal's survey office, in the course of which it was exceedingly frustrating to see that half the time, services were only offered in English, with no one able to do so in French. To find this in Montreal is certainly alarming.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Meaning that French is far from being the common language in Montreal. Is that correct?

[Marie-Anne Alepin]

The language of transmission must not be forgotten. Here too we are talking about the language used at home, the mother tongue. A form of transference is now in evidence. There is the language learned at home, the first language or mother tongue, followed by the language of work.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Ms. Tamilio.

Earlier, she said she had heard someone talk about territoriality. On this topic, Mr. Guillaume Rousseau said that what Quebec wants is to make French the common language in the province. Outside Quebec, wherever there might be a critical mass of francophones, the federal government could at the very least ensure that services be available primarily in French. This does not mean that there would no longer be services in French in areas where there was only a small francophone minority.

I think that the federal government needs to redress the wrongs. At certain periods, there were laws that prohibited the use of French just about everywhere. There should be even more services in French and the rule of "where numbers warrant" should be discarded.

I just wanted to clarify that, but I don't know how Ms. Tamilio sees it.

[Tanya Tamilio]

Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Beaulieu.

That's what I had understood. The intention was to provide more resources in places where there are large francophone communities. For us, it might be the Toronto area, which is about two and a half hours away. It's not exactly next door.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It will always be important to have French-language services where you live. I find it admirable to see you fighting this battle under such difficult conditions.

If I still have some time left, I'd now like to address Ms. Alepin.

In the rest of Canada, communities are struggling to receive services in French and to have francophone schools. You spoke about the testimony given by Mr. Roger Lepage of Manitoba, who appeared before you.

How can this situation be explained? Is there francophobia everywhere in Canada? How do you see all that?

[Marie-Anne Alepin]

A process was set in motion a long time ago. It would appear that the workings of assimilation are still grinding away. I don't know whether I would call it francophobia, but it has become clear that the Official Languages Act will not necessarily be helpful to us.

The act will help the minorities, but here in Quebec, French cannot be seen as the minority language. At the moment, Quebec is still in Canada. The impression is that there is a double standard. There's a form of ambiguity about it. We can't be considered as…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Alepin. I apologize for interrupting you.

[Marie-Anne Alepin]

That's all right.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You will be able to continue later.

The next person to ask questions will be Ms. McPherson.

Ms. McPherson, we have six minutes for you.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses. This is really very interesting.

As I mentioned in the last panel, I represent a community in Alberta that has a very high percentage of francophone speakers, so I see this as vital for ensuring that French happens across the country and that we are supporting it in communities like Edmonton Strathcona and other communities outside of Quebec.

The first question I have is for you, Ms. Tamilio. The vitality of French in my province of Alberta relies on new Canadians. Alberta is fortunate to have good immigration now from francophone Africa, but these new Canadians face more than just language discrimination. They are also facing racism in our communities.

How would you like to see the government support new Canadians from the continent of Africa as they deal with racism? What should Heritage Canada do and what should IRCC do to support these individuals, who are so vital for French to exist in a minority setting like Edmonton Strathcona?

[Tanya Tamilio]

Right now, in place, Patrimoine canadien and IRCC do have anti-racism programs in Sarnia, and I happen to be so lucky as to be able to sit in on this. Lambton College, our local college, accepts approximately 1,600 international students per year. There, they are working on retention of a potential 400 of those students in our area.

Now, we're here to speak about French, and very few of those students speak French. I've already gone and asked and begged to see if there was anybody there who spoke French, but the majority of them are coming from India. We are launching strategies to welcome and retain them, but that's specific to our area, and that's with some of the funding out there that's offered from the federal government.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

From my perspective too, one of the key draws for francophone speakers from Africa is Campus Saint-Jean. Our university is a draw for that immigration. The fact that we cannot agree with our provincial government....

My colleague from the Bloc brought up francophobia. I would say that while it might not have francophobia, our provincial government is certainly not co-operative and does not see the value of protecting or fighting for our francophone Albertans.

My next question is on the targets of the Commissioner of Official Languages or the government. We heard from the Commissioner of Official Languages that the federal government missed its 4.4% target for francophone immigration outside of Quebec. It's never met that 4.4% target since it was set in 2003.

Is this a realistic and sufficient target to maintain and to allow progression of the demographic weight of the Francophonie in our communities?

Again, I would open it up to both of our witnesses, but perhaps, Ms. Tamilio, we could start with you.

I believe our friend from the Bloc is not needed.

Thank you.

[Tanya Tamilio]

That's great. Thank you.

Indeed your 4.4% has not shown an impact in our area. I sit on another board, which is the Réseau en immigration francophone du Centre‑Sud‑Ouest.

Ms. McPherson, is it okay if I go back to French?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Yes.

[Tanya Tamilio]

In this group, we realized that we had to increase the rate of francophone immigration. We are still wondering, however, how to go about it.

One of the problems we have at the moment is that when newcomers to Ontario land at Pearson airport in Toronto, they go straight to kiosks where the employees speak English. That's when they are offered places to live, and they are not necessarily directed elsewhere. IRCC noticed this and attempted to address it by placing some francophone employees at these kiosks. However, these are not full-time. Newcomers arriving therefore don't really have a choice. If the first person who greets them is an anglophone, the newcomer will go to the region to which the anglophone is encouraging them to settle.

To answer your question, the 4.4% rate needs to be increased not only for the Sarnia region, but everywhere in Canada.

We do in fact have immigration services in the Sarnia region. People who arrive in Ontario and speak neither French nor English only have the right to learn one language. So if they arrive in a region like Sarnia, they can't learn only French, because they could not even go and request a passport in that language. People therefore automatically request English-language training. If they want to learn French afterwards, they will have to pay for their courses.

We are asking the federal government to provide funds so that newcomers could learn both languages free of charge.