Official Languages Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

All right.

Commissioner, I understand that only three witnesses were interviewed over the course of four years by the fully bilingual lead investigator. Is that correct?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Again, Mr. Chair, I'm not aware of how many bilingual investigators were assigned to it, so I can't say how many interviews took place with the bilingual investigators.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Commissioner.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Well, according to the—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Brock, I'm sorry. That's your time.

Ms. Kayabaga, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would first like to apologize to our guests. There is rarely so much excitement at our committee. If you come back, you will clearly see that our committee is very organized. This is the first time we have had this kind of situation.

So I want to welcome you, Commissioner, Ms. Huggins.

Earlier, Commissioner, you talked about the fact that there were fewer francophones who held positions on the executive committee. Can you explain why?

I am going to ask my second question right away, given that we do not have a lot of time left. I would like to know whether, in order to hire people, you search at educational institutions like La Cité collégiale, or in other resource pools you might have access to.

[Commr Michael Duheme]

First, regarding recruiting, of course, we look for people who are actively enthusiastic about police work. In fact, there is no uniform approach. We look for people in different communities and at different universities, and we conduct campaigns to attract people to our organization. Our recruiting efforts therefore have several aspects.

On the subject of senior management, you should know that I also include what are called the deputy commissioners, who are responsible for the divisions. For us, a division is a province. As I said earlier, most of our executives are in the British Columbia and Alberta region. I also raised the issue of individuals' mobility. In the past, people accepted promotions and moved, but that is happening less and less.

Another challenge we are facing at present concerns training while people are in the job. Some people hold a key position, so it is difficult for them to leave for six months to go on a second language training course, given the level of expertise.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

You have not yet answered my question about the fact that you said earlier that there were not enough bilingual or francophone positions in senior management.

How many bilingual positions do you have that are held by francophones? Could you tell me why there aren't more?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I don't have the exact figures about the number of bilingual positions.

I don't think I said there were not enough bilingual positions. I said we had trouble filling certain bilingual positions at the senior level.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Why is that the case? Is it because the francophones you recruit are not up to the job? What is the problem?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

No. In fact, it is a problem that dates back several years. Over the years, we have observed a dichotomy. On the one hand, there are people who have an aptitude for the second language although they are not fluent in it; on the other hand, there are people who have the necessary expertise. As I said earlier, for some positions, we have to choose the most qualified person. Then we make an agreement with the person for them to take second language training.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Can you send us in writing the number of bilingual positions in senior management in your organization?

I would like to come back to what I said earlier about resource pools like La Cité collégiale. Is it one of the resources you use? How many people from La Cité collégiale, for example, do you hire in a year?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I am going to let Ms. Huggins answer that question, but I first want to clarify your request concerning the number of bilingual positions. We need to agree that when we talk about an officer position, that does not mean a police officer, it means an executive in the organization. We undertake to provide you with the statistics regarding bilingualism for executive positions, which range from inspector up to the position I hold.

Ms. Huggins can answer your question about La Cité collégiale.

[Nadine Huggins]

The answer is simple: yes, we use all resources and all recruiting pools.

It is easier to hire public service employees than police officers. Our police officers have to go through Depot and take another six months' training. However, we have just started a project for our federal public service employees and we can consider candidates who have training from another college.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Huggins.

Thank you, Ms. Kayabaga. Your five minutes are up.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Commissioner, there have been numerous official languages violations in the RCMP in the past, and there still are at present. Among other things, access to information requests in French take longer to process than requests in English.

Recently, the Commissioner of Official Languages criticized the RCMP because of dangerous road condition warnings in Prince Edward Island were not translated into French until four hours later.

Given all this past history, should the RCMP not apologize to Quebeckers and francophones outside Quebec and commit to having a specific plan of action? I am not talking about you personally, but about the RCMP as an institution.

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I can assure you that the organization takes bilingualism very seriously.

In the past, yes, there were cases when public warnings were issued in English first and then in French. Sometimes, the urgency of the situation made it necessary. What we want to do, using the four pillars of the official languages strategy, is make sure that in the future, any message is sent in both languages at the same time.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Can you commit to saying that there will be unilingual French positions and there will be training in French?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Yes, I can tell you that we are going to examine the situation regarding unilingual French positions, especially in Quebec.

Regarding training solely in French, we have been discussing it for several years, but we are not there yet.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I think that is essential. You say you are having trouble recruiting people. But if there is no basic training, francophones will not have a chance to rise through the ranks and establish themselves in the organization.

That makes me think of the government's work as a whole. It often has good intentions, but it does nothing.

Have people in the government, for example the ministers responsible for official languages or public safety, contacted you to ask you to follow the Official Languages Act and act accordingly?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Yes. I have had a conversation with the Minister, Mr. LeBlanc , who is responsible for public safety, among other things, to discuss the importance of French in the organization and the plan for moving forward.

Regarding implementing the plan, I want to point out that we will have to rearrange resources inside the organization to make sure there will be a team, because we will not have any additional funding or resources.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Duheme and Mr. Beaulieu.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would first like to address the problem raised by the Commissioner of Official Languages regarding the fact that during recent extreme weather events in the Atlantic, the warnings from the RCMP were not issued in French until much later.

Knowing that climate change is a reality, we expect to see more and more extreme weather events. What is the RCMP doing to improve its communications service and make sure that this kind of situation is not repeated?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

The question will be raised with our communications director to make sure that we make every effort possible to have every public communication issued in both official languages at the same time and for there to be no delays like the ones Mr. Beaulieu mentioned earlier.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

We appreciate that commitment, but what about the resources? I understand that the communications director is not with you to speak to this, but are you going to hire people? We don't need good intentions alone; we need concrete actions.