Official Languages Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Yan Plante]

Absolutely. That is somewhat why we...

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Excellent. Thank you, you said they are and that is what I wanted. I have to continue, since the clock is ticking.

Have you heard of repreneurship? Our official language minority communities were very strong and prosperous in the past, but the influence of numerous factors has meant that this is declining.

Are you doing anything with repreneurship?

[Yan Plante]

This was raised with me in all the provinces I have visited to date.

We have to understand that repreneurship is different from selling a business. It is not just about selling a business and agreeing on a price. In the case of repreneurship, the seller wants the culture of their business to be retained—its history and language of operation, in this case—while the buyer wants a business that already exists, in order to keep a business that is already a symbol in its community going.

Some of our members are exploring this avenue. In New Brunswick, for example, I met an entrepreneur who used our services for this. If we had more resources and funds, that is something we could do. I think a broader repreneurship strategy in francophone communities would be welcome.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Is that an objective of RDEE Canada?

[Yan Plante]

Certainly we would like it to be, but it is always a question of funding.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have one last question to ask you.

When the enterprises you represent, in the various regions where they are located, have a choice between hiring a bilingual employee and a unilingual francophone employee, which one are they going to choose first?

[Yan Plante]

Apart from Ontario and New Brunswick, life happens in English in several provinces. We must not spin tales for ourselves. I think the bilingual candidate will be more attractive. That being said, there is still a degree of suspicion. Take the example of Saskatchewan. When you leave...

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I am sorry to have to interrupt you, Mr. Plante, but the clock is ticking. You may have an opportunity to say more about this later.

Mr. Samson, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for their presentations.

Colleagues, it is some time since we have seen one another, but we are pleased with the work being done.

I am going to focus my questions on francophone immigration, but I would first like to know what connection there is between your association and the regional development agencies that are involved in economic development. As you know, Canada has created an agency in each region, and that is an important network.

What connection is there between your association and those agencies?

[Yan Plante]

I am going to let my colleague answer that question, because he is our immigration expert on the board.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Actually, my first question is not about immigration. I am going to talk about that, but first I want to know what connection there is between your association and the regional development agencies in Canada.

[Yan Plante]

Right, I'm sorry.

Our members have their own relationships with their regional development agencies, based on where they are located in the country. In terms of ourselves, at a higher level, we may also have discussions with those agencies, but it is not something that happens regularly. I have only been at RDEE Canada for four months, so I don't really have a very established relationship with the agencies, myself, but I know our members do have.

[John Buck]

I am going to answer for our organization, Mr. Samson.

For us at CEDEC, as part of the official-language minority community in Quebec, there is one regional economic agency in the form of DEC. We have a very strong relationship with DEC. It actually precedes the creation of the economic development initiative, EDI. We have been sponsors and beneficiaries of the economic development initiative since its creation. As all of you are aware, the most recent action plan is the agreement for $30 million over five years, $10 million of which goes to Quebec.

We participate with and partner with DEC in a couple of ways. One, we have a multi-region agreement because we have a presence in all parts of Quebec. We also have direct involvement of regional offices of DEC, so we have a very direct relationship.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

Mr. Plante, I think it is important to take inspiration from best practices followed by organizations in the regions that work closely with the regional development agencies. As you know, those agencies are creatures of the federal government and have responsibility for supporting the economic development of both official language communities. It is therefore extremely important that the national association, which has the power, or the duty, to influence the government regarding the barriers that may exist present this case to it.

Ms. Abdi Aden, it is always a pleasure to see you again. We have not seen each other in a long time. We participated in an international mission a few years ago.

The Conseil de développement économique de la Nouvelle-Écosse has responsibility for employability in that region. Do all members of RDEE Canada, from one end of Canada to the other, with the exception of Quebec, have responsibility for promoting employability on the part of francophone immigrants?

[Roukya Abdi Aden, Manager, National Consultation on Economic Development and Employability, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité du Canada]

Yes, all members of RDEE Canada have responsibility for working on employability.

For example, our member in Alberta is in the process of merging with Accès Emploi, which is the employability agency in Alberta. Today, we are fortunate to be able to say that everywhere in Canada, outside Quebec, our networks and Accès Emploi have been working on employability of francophone immigrants for several years.

A few minutes ago, mention was made of best practices. At the national level, we are doing a lot to move forward on that issue and that function, through national consultation. Mr. Plante talked about speed jobbing, an initiative that started in British Columbia and became a national activity. All of the RDEEs have adopted that good practice.

The answer is therefore yes, absolutely.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

This summer, I met with people from the Centre francophone du Grand Toronto, an organization that greets francophone immigrants at Pearson Airport. I would like to know what connection there is between your network and that centre, which plays an extremely important reception role for those people. If I understand correctly, there is a similar pilot project in Edmonton.

Can you tell us whether there are connections between you, and if so, describe them for us? Greeting is one thing; integration into the communities is another, as is employability.

Are these discussions undertaken from the beginning of the process?

[Roukya Abdi Aden]

Regarding the reception at Pearson Airport, you have to understand that the role of the Centre francophone du Grand Toronto is to give francophone immigrants arriving via that airport the information they need. The immigrants receive a leaflet where they can see the various services offered in all provinces and territories. It is also available through an app, now. It is then up to them to contact the organizations on the ground.

We therefore have no direct connections with the Centre, but some immigrants learn about the existence of services through the information they are given by the Centre. Then, once they have reached the province they needed to get to and have settled there, they come to see us to access the services we offer.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Abdi Aden.

Mr. Samson, that is all the time you had.

The next speaker will be Mr. Beaulieu, who is the second vice-chair of this committee.

Mr. Beaulieu, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Good afternoon.

My first question is for Mr. Buck.

You refer to studies that you say show that anglophones have lower wages, experience more unemployment, and so on. You said it was counterintuitive, and that is putting it mildly. I think it is far from obvious. You get those results by looking at first language spoken, which includes 33% of the immigrants to Quebec, according to data from Statistics Canada. So it includes people who, in some cases, are coming from less developed countries. That method certainly lowers the average.

As well, you use the median, which is more sensitive to wealth disparities. On the other hand, if we use indicators that focus more on the historic anglophone minority, we still get a considerable gap in favour of anglophones.

Regarding mother tongue, I agree that it is not the best indicator and that the most representative indicator is language spoken at home. Unfortunately, those figures are not provided by Statistics Canada. I have asked for them to be provided to us, and we will be getting them later.

The fact is that the average wage for anglophones is $7,800 lower. It is a little lower if we consider the median income. However, the median income does not take disparities into account. We know that among anglophones there are many more very wealthy people who fall at the top of the scale.

When we consider indicators that, in my opinion, better reflect the status of the situation for the historic anglophone minority, we see that it still falls very high on the scale.

Do programs like yours not simply have the effect of upholding the economic advantages of the anglophone community in Quebec?

[John Buck]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Beaulieu.

It's a good question. I'm not a statistician; however, I am an English speaker in Quebec. I'll say that the data we use is the convention with respect to how the English-speaking community in Quebec defines itself as being very inclusive, as being a community that is very diverse. Historically, this has been the approach that has been used. It is very consistent.

With respect to the way in which we engage, in fact, collaborative economic development, the model we use very deliberately actually looks to diminish the disadvantages that are experienced by different segments of our population.

Looking at the statistics—and there can be a debate among statisticians, I presume, around which indicators we're using—and looking at the impact and the results, I can demonstrate to you individuals who are in very impoverished and challenging circumstances and who are ultimately able to benefit—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I am going to stop you there, Mr. Buck.

Myself, I can provide you with data that shows that francophone immigrants have a lot of trouble finding jobs. It would be interesting to have a comparative study on this; in fact, I am currently working on that.

It all depends on how you look at the data.

For example, before we had the Official Languages Act, researchers showed that anglophones' wages were sometimes as much as 50% higher than francophones'. Even among people with low education levels, there was discrimination against francophones solely on the basis of language. Things have changed a bit, but the difference is still significant.

The Office de la langue française has shown that people who use only English at work earn $46,000 on average, which is 20% higher than people who use French. When we measure people based on their use of French or English, we realize that it is still more advantageous to use English.

That is what makes me say it is really unjustified for these programs to support anglophones only. In my opinion, that is discrimination. Anglophones have always been economically advantaged, and now it looks like the majority in Canada added to those advantages in Quebec, in addition to offering some programs only to anglophone or anglicized immigrants.

In addition, just to maintain francophones' demographic weight, Quebec needs to francize 90% of immigrants.

Essentially, by using your programs, you are working to make francophones a minority.

[John Buck]

Perhaps I can just respond briefly, because I think this is such a fundamental concept when we look to economic development within official-language minority communities.

The economy does not operate in English, and it does not operate in French. The economy is something that we all share. In fact, when a program is engaged, particularly using the collaborative economic development model that we use, we very deliberately engage with the majority population, so any economic activity or benefits that are felt by individuals in communities are not felt uniquely by members of an English-speaking minority community.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In that case, I suggest that you do it on the francophone side, and that will help anglophones indirectly.

I have done the calculation in the case of the Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation. I know you use a French name, but it doesn't show anywhere.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have ten seconds left, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Since 2005, your organization has received almost $43 million.

Can you tell us what projects those grants were used for, precisely?