Official Languages Committee on Feb. 12th, 2024

[Pierre-Marcel Desjardins]

I will answer quickly by saying that, when it comes to mobility, we want to stay in rural areas, but we need access to what is happening elsewhere. For that, we need high-speed Internet access, which is unfortunately not always available in rural areas.

On the other hand, without necessarily having an airport in every community, we would have to have air services that would enable us to go to the major centres once or twice a month to attend meetings and participate in development. These two elements would enable people to live in rural areas, in our francophone communities, and to remain open to the rest of the country and the rest of the world.

High-speed Internet and air transportation are two fundamental elements.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Okay.

My colleague Mr. Godin asked you to send your best practices to the committee in writing. I like that idea.

In the document you will be sending us, could you add a paragraph on the challenges and obstacles facing our communities? That would help us think about ways to eliminate those barriers and find better solutions.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

I now give the floor to the committee's second vice-chair, Mario Beaulieu, of the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank our guests.

Mr. Deveau, you talked about the importance of areas, particularly with regard to immigration.

Could you elaborate on that?

[Kenneth Deveau]

Immigration is an urban phenomenon, not only in Canada, but everywhere.

If we want immigration to serve the Canadian francophonie, we have to develop measures to promote rural immigration. The welcoming francophone communities initiative is an interesting tool. At the Conseil de développement économique de la Nouvelle‑Écosse, we're building on the welcoming francophone community in Clare. We're going to set up a cohort.

I want to stress the importance of thoughtful action. We're really looking at a pilot project to establish best practices and expand them to the rest of Nova Scotia and, through our partners at the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité, across the country.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

So it would be good to regionalize immigration and promote immigration in rural areas.

Are you saying this because you believe that French‑speaking communities are more likely to be found in rural areas, or because highly urban areas favour anglicization?

[Kenneth Deveau]

You answered the question by asking it. That's exactly right.

Old‑stock French‑speaking communities across the country are in rural areas that are losing ground, usually in favour of large urban centres.

For example, in Nova Scotia, the largest pool of francophones is now in Halifax. Francophones in Halifax have moved there from other provinces, mainly Quebec, but they also come from other countries.

Halifax benefits disproportionately from francophone immigration compared to Clare, Inverness or Chéticamp, so we're working with the province to develop solutions that will better distribute francophone immigration across the province by encouraging immigration to old‑stock communities, where the French language has a better chance of survival.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

So you agree with Charles Castonguay, who says that immigration to places where the proportion of francophones is higher gives immigrants a better chance of becoming francophone or of maintaining their francophone identity.

[Kenneth Deveau]

Absolutely.

In fact, they will integrate better. That said, for that to happen, we need a critical mass. You can't do it one immigrant at a time. That's why the cohort idea is really important. People integrate better as a group than as individuals.

If we can help these immigrants settle in areas such as St. Marys Bay, where life is still lived in French, we would give this community a better chance of survival, but we would also give these people a better chance of integrating as part of the larger Canadian francophone family, of course.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It's reassuring to hear what you have to say, because the proposal to target certain regions wasn't well received. That doesn't mean we want to depopulate other regions.

The language transfer rate among francophones outside Quebec increases with each census. Do you think there should be measures to counter this trend?

I would also like to come back to the topic of the study, which is economic development. You said that the language of work was English. Do you think it's possible for the language of work to be French in Nova Scotia or New Brunswick?

[Kenneth Deveau]

In some institutions, particularly educational institutions, yes.

I'm sorry, but the customers of Nova Scotia's major seafood exporters are all over the planet. Trade with these customers is done in English. Of course, we talk to each other in French behind the scenes, but the work is done in English. I think it's going to stay that way.

At the very least, if these investments are made in communities like St. Marys Bay or the Acadian Peninsula in New Brunswick—communities with a real chance of survival—we'll come out ahead.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Perhaps it underscores the importance of the economic development of francophone communities outside Quebec. In Quebec, we see that businesses with French as the language of work often have francophone owners. There's a fairly significant correlation. So the more business people in francophone communities outside Quebec are able to develop their businesses, the more we'll be able to establish workplaces that operate in French.

[Kenneth Deveau]

Do you mind if I respond to that?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Please go ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 20 seconds left.

[Kenneth Deveau]

You're absolutely right. There are specific areas we should focus on. I'm thinking in particular of culture, education and tourism. However, in other areas where there's a position in international markets, it's capital that counts, and I think that investing in regions where the language has a chance of survival is a winning choice.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Deveau.

Mr. Beaulieu, your time is up. You may have a chance to come back to it later.

We're going to move over to the NDP now. Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses. What they've told us today corresponds word for word to the concerns we're hearing here at home in Manitoba's francophone communities. It certainly reflects what we're hearing from the urban community in Saint Boniface, but it particularly reflects the concerns of rural communities across our province as well as in the Prairies.

Thank you for giving us such clear recommendations. As my colleagues know, I've been talking about the need to invest in early childhood services and in education in this committee for nearly three years. Personally, I have experienced my own difficulties in this regard. Our community has a francophone day care centre, but because of the labour shortage, I was never able to send my children there. When time passes and parents have no other options, they end up sending their children to the anglophone system, and we sometimes lose them forever.

I have questions for both of you, starting with Mr. Desjardins.

How important is it to invest in early childhood services? We know that we need infrastructure, that is to say day care centres, but also staff to take care of children. How important is it for the federal government to make stable investments in this area? How essential are these investments in retaining young families in our communities?

[Pierre-Marcel Desjardins]

This is fundamental in a number of ways.

First of all, there's a lot of talk about labour shortages. That said, we must help parents who want to enter the workforce. I think early childhood services are essential to promote the integration and retention of these people in the workforce.

Second, there's often a linguistic challenge. The situation in Manitoba is somewhat similar to what we experience in our region. We have bilingual options, but that often means that English becomes dominant. This confirms the importance of having early childhood services in French. It's said that kids will pick up English on the street and don't need to go to day care or school to learn it. This is fundamental.

Third, there's the issue of child care affordability. Not all parents can afford to pay extremely high fees to send their children to day care. Some, unfortunately, have to make the choice to stay at home, whether it's one parent or both. Sometimes, they are single‑parent families. These parents don't do it by choice, but simply because the fees are really very high.

In that context, I would add one last element: provincial governments need to be at the table as partners, because they're the ones managing the funds on the ground. If, despite the directions given by the federal government, the funds aren't managed on the ground in such a way as to make francophone day cares truly accessible, we're missing the boat.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Desjardins.

I'm going to use the time I have left for Mr. Deveau and look at the subject from another angle.

You talked about the essential role of international students. We know that the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship announced a few weeks ago that Canada was would be reducing the number of international students it receives. Unfortunately, we didn't hear any promise that French‑language institutions would be granted an exemption. Representatives of the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne told us that they were very concerned about this situation. Our institutions and communities depend on international students. What's very concerning is that the international community has already heard this announcement, and people are already thinking of studying elsewhere instead of coming to Canada.

Can you share your views and recommendations with us? Do you think it would be important to have an exemption for students who will be studying solely in French?

[Kenneth Deveau]

I'm going to be very efficient: My answer is yes to everything you said.

We know that there's a market in education. International students are being used as a marketable commodity, somewhat underhandedly, at some institutions in Canada. We've seen examples of that. However, that's not the case with Canada's French‑language universities and colleges. It's an integral part of our goals, as a society, to ensure the survival of these communities and even their development.

So the answer to your question is yes, absolutely.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Deveau.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You're just over your time. You're at six minutes and five seconds.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Okay.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton and Mr. Deveau.

Since we have to end the meeting at 5:30 p.m. sharp, we won't have time for the full next round of questions, so I'm going to give four minutes to the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party, and one minute—so just enough time to ask a good question—to the NDP and the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Dalton, you have the floor for four minutes.