Official Languages Committee on Feb. 15th, 2024

[Gaëtan Thomas]

The answer is yes, and we're working hard on that. More and more retirees are going back to work. I myself am a retiree who went on to work for several organizations, like the Conseil économique du Nouveau-Brunswick.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you for the personalized response.

I often think to myself that government could develop strategies to encourage seniors to get involved in their communities.

Mr. Dupuis, do you do any kind of outreach with seniors? Is there any interest and are there any opportunities in your area?

One of you mentioned that attracting people to rural regions was challenging. Would retirees returning to work part time improve the situation in these regions?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

There are 10 seconds left.

[Patrick Dupuis]

Yes, we do. Our delivery man is a retiree; he works a few hours or a few days a week. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement that helps us out a lot.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Dupuis.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

My first question is for Mr. Dupuis.

I admire your courage as well as your resilience or resistance. I've heard that 97.1% of Vermilion's population is unilingual anglophone. That means that almost everyone who speaks French needs to be bilingual.

In your business, do people mostly work in English or in French?

[Patrick Dupuis]

Only one of our five employees is unilingual anglophone. The others are all francophone. We all speak French at work.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Okay.

You still need to serve your clients in English though, right?

[Patrick Dupuis]

Yes, and we offer services in French to those who need it. We get a lot of tourists from Quebec driving through Alberta to get to the Rockies.

They stop in Vermilion to visit our business, because we provide service in French.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In your opinion, when francophone immigrants settle in Vermilion, are they more likely to integrate in English or in French?

[Patrick Dupuis]

They're more likely to integrate in English, absolutely. In my 25-year military career, before retiring and starting my own business, I lived in almost every province, and it was quite a challenge forcing my kids to keep speaking French in the community.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Thomas, earlier you stated that the proportion of people who speak French at home is in decline and how important it is to orient francophone immigration towards regions with a high concentration of francophones.

Could you elaborate on that a bit?

[Gaëtan Thomas]

We shouldn't orient them exclusively to majority francophone areas. If the proportion of anglophones in bilingual cities like Moncton goes up, although we may not end up in the same situation as Vermilion, little by little, meetings and discussions might get more complicated. That's what we see in majority anglophone cities, and even bilingual cities where both communities are pretty equally balanced.

In francophone regions, like Restigouche and the Acadian peninsula, we need people just to keep the levels of service, especially in health. The francophone community est very much alive and vibrant in these areas.

In my opinion, we need to ensure that we maintain a certain percentage. Actually, to reverse the decline that we've seen these past few years, as clearly stated by the Société de l'Acadie du Nouveau-Brunswick, or SANB, we'll need to increase the percentage of francophone immigration to maintain a economically vibrant francophone community.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Francophone immigrants who settle in Moncton are more likely to become anglicized than those who settle in the Acadian peninsula. Am I understanding that right?

[Gaëtan Thomas]

In terms of second language, the immigrants who settle in Moncton, even the francophone ones, probably think that big cities offer more employment opportunities. That's where all the better-paid jobs are.

These people become anglicized more rapidly instead of maintaining their French.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

So you'd agree on the principle of wanting to regionalize francophone immigration and targeting regions with a strong francophone concentration.

[Gaëtan Thomas]

Yes, and I'd also include Moncton, which is really where most of the bilingual services in Atlantic Canada are. There are a lot of translation and call centre jobs there, among others.

If we lose all that, we'll also lose jobs. It would be a shame to lose a place like Moncton, which is highly francophone, after all. The entire periphery of the of city is francophone.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's so interesting to me, the inevitability of the principle of territoriality. That's how languages work. So it's communities with a strong francophone concentration that can sustain French. Incidentally, that was the basic principle of Bill 101.

Under the Official Languages Act newly amended by Bill C‑13, some measures will come into force in two years, I believe, to compel federally regulated businesses to provide services in French in regions with a high concentration of francophones.

Have you heard about that? Were you consulted on it?

[Gaëtan Thomas]

The Conseil économique du Nouveau-Brunswick was not consulted. That said, French-language federal services in Moncton, and even in the capital, Fredericton, are fairly satisfactory. None of our members challenged this new amendment, but we're always willing to receive more.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Thomas and Mr. Beaulieu.

Now we'll move on to Ms. Ashton, from the NPD, for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to thank the witnesses.

Whenever we talk about economic development and all of the things that are needed to make it happen, we also need to talk obstacles. About that, access to child care and educational services in French in our communities is an issue that comes up a lot in this committee.

Some witnesses have stated that, if the necessary child care services were available in French, our rural regions and francophone communities would be more welcoming and better able to convince families to stay. We know, of course, that there's a labour shortage, not just in that area, but in francophone communities across the country.

My first questions will be for you, Mr. Thomas. How are the impacts of the labour shortage manifesting in francophone schools, in child care services and in health, which you've also mentioned in passing? What impacts is it having on the economy of francophone communities in your region?

[Gaëtan Thomas]

That's a really interesting point. When it comes to child care, there isn't much of an issue in francophone majority communities, other than the fact that finding people is hard, as it is in every other area. In places like Moncton and Fredericton, however, more and more francophone parents are having to send their kids to anglophone day care, which is bad.

That's why, in response to your colleague's question earlier, I said that we shouldn't neglect francophone immigration to urban centres. Indeed, that's where kids come to befriend anglophone kids, and after a year, they end up speaking English more often than French. It's a major problem, especially for young children. In urban centres in New Brunswick, many parents have no choice but to send their children to anglophone day care.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you for letting us know. That's quite concerning. The same thing is happening in Manitoba.

We talk about economic development, about wanting to keep our people, our youth and our creativity. Do you think that investing in these sectors that are experiencing a labour shortage, not only child care but also education, could help keep young people and families in our francophone communities?

[Gaëtan Thomas]

Absolutely.

It's the labour shortage. That's why, in our case, we need to go get the students, we need to recognize their skills. This is as much a problem in New Brunswick as it is anywhere else, even though the province is bilingual.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Thomas.

Mr. Dupuis, I'd like to ask you the same question. I don't know what kind of French-language child care and education services there are in Vermilion. As we know, francophone education is a vibrant sector in Alberta. I heard you say that it's difficult to convince kids to speak French in an English-speaking environment.

I live in northern Manitoba, which isn't a francophone area. We know that schools can be community meeting places, in a sense. Do you think that, in your community, there should be more French-language services in child care and education, and more support for those services, in order to welcome francophones and convince them to stay so that they can contribute to the region's economic development?