Official Languages Committee on Feb. 29th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

The meeting is now public.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3) and the motion adopted by the committee on January 29, 2024, the committee is meeting to begin its study on the language obligations related to the process of staffing or making appointments to key positions.

I'd like to welcome the witnesses who we are honoured to have with us this morning.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, you are in a rush. You don't even have a clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We welcome Mr. Raymond Théberge, Commissioner of Official Languages. With him is Mr. Pierre Leduc, assistant commissioner, strategic orientation and external relations branch, and for the first time, Mr. Patrick Wolfe, assistant commissioner, compliance and enforcement branch.

Welcome, everyone. Thank you for being here.

This meeting will allow us to conduct the study requested by the Commissioner, but perhaps he can give us some more tips or direct us to help us conduct it more effectively.

As you know, Commissioner, you will have five minutes for your opening remarks. I am very strict with the time and will crack the whip to give all the political parties more time to ask questions and get some answers, in a give-and-take process.

You have the floor, Mr. Théberge.

[Raymond Théberge, Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, honourable members of the committee.

I'd like to acknowledge that the lands on which we are gathered are part of the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people, an indigenous people of the Ottawa Valley.

As you may know, in 2021-2022, following a record number of complaints filed with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, I recommended that a study be conducted on language obligations related to the staffing of senior management positions in the federal public service and Governor-in-Council appointments. The idea behind this recommendation was to determine whether knowledge of both official languages should be a requirement when hiring for these types of positions. The study you are undertaking is in response to this recommendation, and I'd like to thank you for it.

I've said it many times in the past, that being able to speak both official languages is, in my view, an essential skill for any leader, especially those in federal institutions subject to the Official Languages Act.

The bilingual nature of an organization depends, in large part, on the bilingualism of those occupying positions at the highest levels. They need to lead by example and must be able to represent all their employees and Canadians in both official languages.

I therefore believe that proficiency in both official languages must become a hiring criterion for senior management positions in the public service and for Governor in Council appointments.

I am pleased with the amendments made by your committee last spring to Bill C-13, particularly with regard to the language training required to ensure the bilingual capacity of deputy ministers and associate deputy ministers who are newly appointed to the federal public service, if they are not bilingual at the time of their appointment.

It will be interesting to see the impact of this change on the public service over the next few years. That said, the job is only half done. In the absence of clear policies and guidelines, how can we ensure that this change will be implemented, measured and adjusted as necessary? What measures will be put in place to support incumbents when they return from language training to enable them to carry out their responsibilities effectively in both official languages? What will happen in cases where senior civil servants are still unable to master their second official language?

I also question the absence of bilingualism in the list of essential criteria for Governor-in-Council appointments. As you may know, in recent years, a number of appointments have raised eyebrows among Canadians because no bilingualism criteria were required as part of the nomination process. This has led to a significant number of complaints to my office.

We should be looking at all senior management positions and institutions subject to the Official Languages Act to ensure that a command of both official languages is part of the requirements of these positions.

Moreover, the act did not address current senior public servants at the time of royal assent. However, the legislators' intention behind the addition for newly appointed deputy ministers should shine through to all senior management.

In my opinion, any leader in the federal public service must be able to express himself or herself in both official languages and understand anyone who speaks English or French, in order to promote the use of both official languages and encourage linguistic security in the workplace in the federal public service. This also gives a voice to the issues on the table.

Senior management must lead by example and send a clear signal that both English and French have a prominent and equal place in the federal public service, so that public servants can flourish in both official languages. It is high time that we acted.

I'm confident that your study will shed light on the hiring criteria for senior public service positions and that it will help government decision-makers take a closer look.

Thank you for your attention. I'm happy to answer your questions in the official language of your choice.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

As you know, there will be rounds of questions and answers. In the first round, each political party will have the floor for six minutes.

Before we begin, I would like to salute the new members of the committee: Ms. Kusie from the Conservative Party has returned, and we have Ms. Koutrakis from the Liberals. We are very pleased to have them on the committee.

To begin the first round of questions, Mr. Joël Godin, the first vice-chair of the committee, has the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Commissioner. We would have liked to meet with you at 8:15 this morning, but it was cold and I understand that it may be more difficult for you to be here at that time. We parliamentarians were here and we were awake.

I would like to hear your thoughts on the fact that, although the new Official Languages Act received royal assent in June 2023, you still do not have the tools you need to impose administrative monetary penalties. Those penalties are set out in the act, but first the government has to issue an order. Do you have any information about when it will give you the tools to do your job more effectively?

[Raymond Théberge]

I have not been given a firm date as to when the order that will bring the act into force will be issued.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Is that an important tool for you to perform your role more effectively?

[Raymond Théberge]

Yes, I think it is an essential tool, especially since the act will apply to the transportation sector and the travelling public, areas that have been the source of many complaints received by my office for a considerable number of years.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You say it is essential, but the government is dragging its feet on the order. I have a very simple question for you. Who in cabinet has to table the order?

[Raymond Théberge]

That's a good question: Is the Minister of Official Languages or the president of the Treasury Board responsible for the order? That is not clear to me.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

What you are saying is music to my ears because we introduced an amendment to make the Treasury Board responsible for the act. Unfortunately, the government did not agree to our amendment.

So can you tell me whether the current government is upholding the spirit of the Official Languages Act as to the appointment of senior officials by the Privy Council?

[Raymond Théberge]

Since Bill C‑13 was just passed last June, I could not say whether the most recent appointments are in compliance with the act. They should be in compliance. I am not aware of recent appointments though, so I cannot say whether they uphold the act or not.

Some aspects of the act will come into force in June 2025, including the requirement that all public servants have the right to be supervised and to work in their preferred official language in any region designated bilingual for language of work.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I'm sure you saw the Radio-Canada report to the effect that the senior public service does not represent both official languages equally, with 50% francophones and 50% anglophones. Can that be remedied by the act? Will the act require the government to appoint bilingual people from now on?

I am referring also to the Governor General, who is bilingual but does not speak French, and to the Lieutenant Governor of New Brunswick, the only bilingual province in Canada, who is a unilingual anglophone. Will the act require the government to comply with and uphold French-English bilingualism in Canada?

[Raymond Théberge]

The act does not apply to the appointment of the Governor General of Canada or the Lieutenant Governor of New Brunswick. So the simple answer to your question is no.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You can appreciate that the Prime Minister of Canada has a legal obligation, but he should also have a moral obligation and should lead by example. What are your thoughts on that?

[Raymond Théberge]

As I said, it is important for all senior federal leaders to be able to communicate in Canada's two official languages and for Canadians to be heard in both official languages.

The new Official Languages Act based on Bill C‑13 does not address the examples you mentioned. Two other bills, Bill S‑220 and Bill S‑229 do currently address those possibilities—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Both of those bills are Senate bills.

[Raymond Théberge]

—but they have not been studied yet.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Does the new Official Languages Act have enough teeth, as the former Minister of Official Languages said at the time, to give us hope for the future and that senior officials will be bilingual?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please answer in less than 30 seconds.

[Raymond Théberge]

If section 34 regarding deputy ministers and associate deputy ministers is properly implemented, the answer is yes. Yet there are many issues involving the implementation of that section of the act.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So it is not complete and not clear, from what I understand.

[Raymond Théberge]

That's right.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Commissioner.