Official Languages Committee on March 2nd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call this meeting to order.

Hello, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number nine of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of Thursday, November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from health authorities as well as a directive of the Board of Internal Economy on Monday, February 14, 2022, to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person are to maintain two metres of physical distancing and must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. It is highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times, including when seated. You can also maintain proper hand hygiene by using the hand sanitizer provided in the room.

As the Chair I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting and I thank members in advance for their cooperation.

For those of you who are attending virtually, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either Floor, English or French. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately—feel free to cut me off. We will ensure interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in the committee room.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the videoconference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. Those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

A reminder that all comments by committee members should be addressed through the Chair. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mic should be on mute.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Should any technical challenges arise, please advise me. Please know that we may need to suspend for a few minutes as we need to ensure all members are able to participate fully.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, January 31, 2022, the committee is continuing its study on francophone immigration to Canada and Quebec.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses who will be testifying during the first hour of the meeting.

Before going any further, I'd like to point out that although there are votes in the House, our extraordinary team made up of the analysts, the clerk, the technicians and the interpreters have managed to extend the meeting time. In my opinion, and if the committee consents, the meeting can be two hours long. We will see, but the team is available for a two-hour meeting.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

We just learned that there will be a call for a vote at 4:49 p.m., and that the vote will take place at 5:20 p.m. That means your plan won't work.

I'd like us to have a plan for both panels. I, for one, am available to stay a little later, but my schedule unfortunately doesn't permit me to stay here for two more hours.

I'd like to check in with the other committee members.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

The meeting will adjourn at 6:15 p.m.; we're not asking that the meeting be two hours longer.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

The trouble is—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

What we could do—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Ladies and gentlemen, when the bells ring, we can continue the meeting, if all members agree. It's only during the vote that we must vote.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I certainly agree with you, Mr. Chair. The problem is that we're going to hear the first panel but maybe not the second.

I just want us to make a decision now, out of respect for our two panels. Do we want to shorten the time for the first panel to leave some time for the second panel?

I move that we agree to continue until 6 p.m., with the understanding that some members may have to leave us before then.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

In any event, our rules allow us to continue after that, for those who are able to stay.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Unfortunately, I can't stay later than 6 p.m., and my colleague has to leave at 5:50 p.m. So let's aim for 6 p.m.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

All right. What I'm saying is that our rules still allow us to continue to hear testimony even if some people have to leave.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Is that allowed even if we don't have a quorum?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes, since there is no vote.

Without further ado, we will now proceed. We'll try to finish the first part of the meeting at about 5:15 p.m. and then continue with the second panel of witnesses.

I apologize to the witnesses. It's always messed up like this when there are votes.

I would now like to welcome our first panel of witnesses. In the first hour, we have, by videoconference, lawyer Stéphane Handfield with Handfield et Associés, and Honorine Ngountchoup, welcoming and integration services officer for international students at Collège communautaire du Nouveau‑Brunswick. Both are appearing as individuals.

Finally, we welcome representatives from the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario: president Carol Jolin, executive director Peter Hominuk and policy analyst Bryan Michaud.

You will each have up to five minutes for your opening remarks, after which we will proceed to rounds of questions. I will let you know when you have one minute remaining.

Mr. Handfield, you have the floor.

[Stéphane Handfield, Lawyer, Handfield et Associés, Avocats, As an Individual]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for inviting me here today.

I've been a member of the Barreau du Québec since 1992. I was a member of the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada for 11 years. From 2012 to 2015, I was a lecturer at the Saint‑Laurent CEGEP, teaching in the administrative techniques—immigration advisory program. I'm a member of the Quebec Immigration Lawyers Association and the Association des avocats de la défense de Montréal.

I practise immigration law exclusively at Handfield et Associés, Avocats. I also work as an inspector for the professional inspection service of the Barreau du Québec. I co‑authored the book Démantèlement tranquille, published by Éditions Québec Amérique in 2018. I am the author of Immigration et criminalité au Canada : Quand l'expulsion devient inévitable, a book published by Wilson & Lafleur in 2020, and the book Fatima : le parcours d'une réfugiée, also published by Wilson & Lafleur, in 2021.

Over the past 30 years, I have often had to deal with the lack of respect for the French language in immigration matters in various forums. This has happened at the Immigration and Refugee Board, at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, and at the Canada Border Services Agency. I have seen that this situation has been getting worse for a number of years. Let me give you a few examples.

At a refugee protection claimant's hearing, the Immigration and Refugee Board tried to prevent me from using the language of proceedings chosen by my client, in this case French. The Federal Court had to intervene to ensure that my client's choice was respected, which involved time and energy that could have been invested in a much better way.

It was impossible to communicate in French with registry officers of the Immigration and Refugee Board at the regional office in Toronto, even though several files of refugee protection claimants from Montreal had been transferred to that office.

Just yesterday, in the case of a refugee protection claimant in Montreal, while the language of the proceedings was French, it was impossible to use the services of a French‑speaking interpreter to translate from French to the claimant's mother tongue. Only an English‑speaking interpreter was assigned to the file.

It's not uncommon to receive a 12‑line communication from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada containing no fewer than 17 errors in French.

Recently, I received written reasons from an Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada officer for a decision on an application for permanent residence with humanitarian and compassionate considerations. This communication was in English only, even though the application had been submitted in French and the language of correspondence chosen was French.

An officer's reasons for decision for a pre‑removal risk assessment were sent in English only, even though the application and written submissions were submitted in French and the language of the procedures chosen by the client was French.

It's common to receive correspondence from an Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada officer in English only as part of a family reunification file, when the file was submitted in French and the language of correspondence chosen was also French.

Unfortunately, these don't seem to be exceptional or isolated cases, but rather a trend that is taking root. So we can advance the hypothesis that francophones are facing discrimination in immigration.

As I've been practising immigration law for 30 years, I could go on giving you examples of cases where the French language has been flouted by immigration authorities in Canada in favour of the English language.

So it seems to me that the government's intervention to ensure respect for the French language before the various immigration authorities is more urgent than ever.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Handfield. You managed to make your opening remarks in three and a half minutes. It was very brief.

I will now give the floor to Honorine Ngountchoup for five minutes.

[Honorine Ngountchoup, International Student Reception and Integration Support Officer, Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick , As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Honorine Ngountchoup. I'm from Cameroon, and I arrived in Canada in 2016.

As a francophone immigrant, I consider myself Canadian given my presence, community involvement and love for Canada.

I am a member of provincial, regional and local boards. I have a full‑time job, and I'm a single mother of a Canadian‑born boy. I created an initiative to encourage my region to discover my culture, to allow newcomers to rediscover some of what they've left behind by coming to Canada and to bring together all the francophones and francophiles in our beautiful country. Through my personality, my background, my vision and my entrepreneurship, I enrich the cultural content of my province. I have created many murals for the francophonie to strengthen people and their experiences.

I am part of the Festival international de Slam/Poésie en Acadie collective, and for the past four years, I have been hosting a program called Francophone à Sommet FM to promote the French language. This makes me an actor in the expansion of the French language. My contribution to my community and the province was considered exceptional. In 2009, I received the campus leadership award from the New Brunswick Community College, the NBCC, in Campbellton, and in 2020, I received the champion of cultural diversity award, individual category, from the New Brunswick Multicultural Council. I continue to be involved in community, artistic and literary projects in my province.

Lately, I've been hearing a lot about systemic racism. Am I experiencing it? That's the question. Would I be able to recognize it at all times? I don't know, because it's a new concept for me. Do I feel that I'm being treated unfairly because of my immigration status? My answer is yes.

It's impossible for me to talk about my immigrant experience in five minutes, so I will sum it up in this slam:

Final decision

September 22, 2021
We regret to inform you that you do not meet the eligibility criteria. Please see the final decision below.
The news fell like a sledgehammer
Right on my head
Right in my heart
Which flutters with fear
In the face of the final hour
Which has now just rung

I want to know the reason for “we regret”.
And then I click
I look and want it to be just a snag
Application Status: Refused
How can it be refused?
Who could have validated the refusal
When I slog away to earn
The status approved

Click on the letter of refusal
The page doesn't work
CIC online services sent an incorrect answer
Refresh 10, 20, 100 times
100 unfortunate wishes sent to the universe
Dreaming that a miracle will turn the verdict upside down

Because I'm tired
And feel exhausted
From completing forms
That one day, will offer me citizenship

Why are they merciless?
Why do they mute themselves?
Why do they ignore reality?
Do they doubt our willingness?

Don't they say that truth sets you free?
My truth did not clear me
Since my background is rich
It took me your days to fill in my forms
To experience trauma, but they don't care

Application refused can't be my outcome
Believe me
I am not guilty of the divide
I am not guilty despite the form
I am guilty of my desire to exist
Guilty of my willingness
Guilty of my thirst for freedom
Above all, guilty of my truth

The one I once nurtured
To want to see the day
In this country of “good days”

Message for the IRCC
In making the next final decision
Think that my son's future isn't trivial
Think that I haven't had any rest in a while
And think that here is already my home

One thing is certain
I have overcome migraines
I have suffered the height of my suffering
I have faith that at the end of my sorrows
I would emerge Queen

Final decision

Slam

To meet the 4.4% target, IRCC needs to clarify the French test issue. I failed a French test, and I had to pay again and redo the entire assessment before applying for residency. It was a hard blow because I was always told that my French was excellent. I grew up, studied and worked in French. Even if you pass that test, the two‑year validity of that test is an additional stress.

Some IRCC services need to be decentralized, such as biometric registration and medical exams. Service Canada and hospitals in rural areas with increasing numbers of francophones can provide services and save us 8‑ to 10‑hour trips for appointments that last between 5 and 40 minutes.

Affordability is also a barrier for enriching francophones who are involved and present on Canadian soil. Accessing the IRCC website is a matter of luck, and talking to an agent on the phone is a feat. All of these aspects put the mental health of immigrants at risk throughout this journey to permanent residence.

I look forward to concrete solutions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Ngountchoup.

The president of the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario, Mr. Jolin, now has the floor.

[Carol Jolin, President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

I would first like to thank you for inviting the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario to appear before you as part of your work on francophone immigration to Canada. As an organization, we represent nearly 744,000 Franco‑Ontarians.

I would also like to mention that I'm accompanied today by the AFO's executive director, Peter Hominuk, and our policy analyst, Bryan Michaud.

We are pleased to see that the Government of Canada recognizes the importance of francophone immigration to Canada. The survival of the Franco‑Ontarian community depends greatly on the immigration of French‑speaking people.

In addition, I would like to highlight the progress proposed in Bill C‑13. The legislation specifies that the policy must include a target and accountability measures. It would be worthwhile to amend it to clarify the specific objective of the new policy. The legislation doesn't do what the government says it will do on immigration.

In recent years, we have seen initiatives that have had a positive impact on welcoming and retaining newcomers. The reception for francophones at Pearson Airport, improvements to the Express Entry system and the designation of three welcoming francophone communities have had interesting effects in Ontario.

However, there is still work to be done. That's why we're taking this opportunity to highlight some of the challenges facing the Franco‑Ontarian community, since francophone immigration targets have still not been met in Ontario and across the country. In addition, we see that study permits are being denied to international students, especially those from Africa.

A few weeks ago, our university presidents testified before the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. They pointed out that Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada refused nearly 70% of study permit applications to those wishing to study at French‑language post‑secondary institutions in Ontario. One of the reasons given by the officers who assess the applications is that they did not consider the fact that they wanted to study in French outside Quebec to be an acceptable path.

At a time when we are witnessing the implementation and transformation of francophone universities in Ontario, this type of argument is counterproductive to what we are trying to accomplish in our province. Our universities, in addition to serving francophones and francophiles here, are powerful recruitment tools for francophone immigration. The French‑language post‑secondary pathway in Ontario is valid, and recognized and endorsed by the governments of Canada and Ontario.

The argument made by IRCC officers is a slap in the face to our community and to all students attending our post‑secondary institutions. Furthermore, it would appear that many students are being denied visas because they have expressed a desire to work in Canada after they complete their studies. Francophone immigration nourishes and enriches our communities, and increases the francophone labour pool.

We are currently experiencing a shortage of francophone workers in Ontario, exacerbated by the pandemic, and we believe that welcoming francophone international students to our institutions is an important part of the solution.

Francophone international students who attend our institutions receive Canadian expertise and strengthen our official language minority communities. The training offered in Ontario would ensure successful professional, economic, social and cultural integration should they decide to apply for permanent residence. Their success is a key element to the vitality of Ontario's francophone community and to the future of the province.

The current pandemic has taken a toll on immigration across the country. This situation is even more acute in the francophone minority context in Ontario. The province has set a francophone immigration target of 5%, and the federal government has set a target of 4.4% outside Quebec. It's clear that these two targets are far from being met.

In the third quarter of 2021, in the midst of a pandemic, Ontario welcomed just over 2% of francophone immigrants. This alarming statistic applies to Canada as a whole. However, Ontario had reached 4.09% in 2020, which was encouraging.

For some years, the province of Ontario has been selecting more than 5% of French-speaking immigrants through its single immigration program, the Ontario immigrant nominee program. We are of the opinion that the federal government should give the Government of Ontario the power to select more immigrants through the Ontario immigrant nominee program. In return, the province should commit to continue selecting at least 5% of the French-speaking candidates.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Jolin.

[Carol Jolin]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We will start the first round of questions. Everyone will have six minutes for their questions.

We will start with our friend Joël Godin.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me take this opportunity to thank the witnesses for their patience in rather special circumstances, such as when we have votes in the House of Commons.

Mr. Handfield, you are on the front lines. You are privileged to deal directly with clients, with people who need help and support in the immigration process. You said that immigration authorities have no respect for the French language. You also talked about the involvement on the part of the Federal Court.

My question is simple: what do we have to do?

You experience it every day. All the data, all the indicators show it: there is no respect for French-speaking immigration, as you said.

Can you give us some possible solutions to this major problem, which, in my opinion, is increasing exponentially?

[Stéphane Handfield]

The Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada is a quasi-judicial tribunal. I agree, therefore, that it is a little difficult for parliamentarians to become directly involved at that level. However, the problem I have been seeing in recent years is that we have little recourse through which we can insist on the client's choice of language. This applies in the Department of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, IRCC, and in the Canada Border Services Agency. Other than complaining to the Commissioner of Official Languages, there is not a lot of recourse. That leads to my recommendation to you to make sure that CBSA or IRCC officers are accountable.

There are no consequences when we receive a decision in English only on a file that was submitted in French, and when the client is not at all comfortable in English, but is comfortable in French. Receiving a decision is a little concerning and stressful for a claimant. When the claim is accepted, the consequences are fewer, but, when the decision is a refusal and the claimant does not understand the decision at all, you can imagine the additional stress that comes with the decision.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Handfield, as I listened to you, I felt the need to ask you a very specific question about the situation before March 1 and after March 1. Yesterday, a bill to modernize the Official Languages Act was introduced. That bill contains a section on francophone immigration.

Have you had the time to become familiar with the bill?