Official Languages Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Rima Hamoui]

The data varies from year to year and from month to month.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Under Bill C‑13, deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers must be bilingual. Since Bill C‑13 was passed, have there been any hires or not?

[Rima Hamoui]

With the changes to the act, deputy ministers and associate deputy ministers must take the necessary training to ensure that they understand both official languages after their appointment.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

So right now, they can still be appointed even if they aren't bilingual.

[Rima Hamoui]

Yes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That is the case, even with Bill C‑13.

[Rima Hamoui]

Yes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That's interesting.

Second, I'm very pleased that the Treasury Board Secretariat representatives are with us today.

Mr. Quell, I really liked the comments made by the woman who was here earlier. She said something that struck me. You were here and I'm very happy that you were able to hear it as well. According to what she said, the longer we wait to implement Bill C‑13, the less likely we are to succeed in improving the act. Do you agree?

[Carsten Quell]

I agree that every new piece of legislation needs to be implemented as quickly as possible.

That said, there are certain processes that are provided for, particularly with regard to regulations, including the one for Part VII of the act. I appeared before this committee with the President of the Treasury Board, who referred to the necessary timelines. I think it's important to understand that regulations can only be put in place after consultations with stakeholders and the public. In addition—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I understand your answer and I thank you for it.

Is it possible to get a timeline, an organizational chart or some sort of document that would show what can be done in the first month, in six months, and in a year? I understand that it could take a year before the regulations are put in place because of the consultations that have to be held. However, I'd be concerned if it were to take more than a year, and I've heard rumours that it would.

Is it possible to know what steps can be taken quite easily in a month, in six months or in a year to get a clear picture of the situation, even if it might take a year or two before the regulations are in place?

[Carsten Quell]

Yes, it's entirely possible.

We've started the process of drafting regulations. We're familiar with the steps. Right now, we're at the pre-consultation stage with stakeholders, particularly with official language minority communities and the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages. The next step will be tabling draft regulations in Parliament, which will be studied by your committee.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Is it possible to get a schematic that will explain that?

[Carsten Quell]

We can certainly send you more information.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Okay, great.

I know your office is working closely with Canadian Heritage on the transition of responsibilities. How far have you gotten since Bill C‑13 was passed last June?

[Carsten Quell]

I can give you an example.

Bill C‑13 provides that Treasury Board is responsible for governance. Starting in the coming fiscal year, the Treasury Board Secretariat will be responsible for, among other things, the high-level Committee of Assistant Deputy Ministers on Official Languages. We'll take that over from Canadian Heritage.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Mr. Quell, I appreciate your answers. I'm not trying to attack you; I just want Canadians to see what progress has been made on Bill C‑13.

Again, could we get some kind of chart that explains where we are in the transition and how long it'll take to get there?

[Carsten Quell]

We can certainly send you information about governance and the transition of responsibilities from Canadian Heritage to Treasury Board.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I gather that progress has been made on the accountability framework and official languages reports. Can you update us on that as well?

[Carsten Quell]

We can also provide you with information on the accountability framework, although it's still in development.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I'm concerned because Canadians are wondering when the new powers with respect to official languages will come into effect. When will the commissioner receive his powers?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Samson. That's an excellent question, but your time is already up.

I'll give the floor to the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Ms. Flowers Code, just recently, a Bloc Québécois member from Montreal was unable to obtain service in French from a security officer. He was told to get lost. He said that, had he not been a member of Parliament, he would likely have had a lot of problems. I also got a call from a math prof, who told me that, when he demanded to be served in French at customs, he was told to back down. When he pressed the issue, he was put in jail and missed his trip.

There are obviously problems here. These incidents happened in Montreal. You said earlier that you had trouble finding people who spoke French in remote areas, but Montreal is in Quebec, and it's not a remote region. Could you comment on that situation?

[Holly Flowers Code]

I'm very sorry to hear that we didn't meet the standard for Canadians and, in particular, for this traveller.

I'm happy to take the details back. We are committed, and we do have a scheduling system to ensure that we have bilingual capacity at all our bilingual ports of entry, but from time to time, border service officers have family emergencies or are sick. We do have backups. We do have phone services when the bilingual capacity cannot be provided at that time. However, we are committed, and I'm happy to take that away and to look at that situation.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Well, I'm glad you're going to look into it, because it doesn't seem to be an unusual occurrence. Security officers verge on contemptuous when people ask for service in French; they don't want to provide it. I've even taken part in protests against the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada because a lawyer was prohibited from pleading a case in French at his client's request. People spoke out against that so many times that he was finally given the right to plead in French, although he was denied documents in French. Eventually those documents were provided. I believe the Canada Border Services Agency submitted an evidence document in English, then withdrew that document upon realizing it had to be bilingual.

This all indicates there are problems in Montreal too. We've been told the Canada Border Services Agency has been heavily criticized. I don't know if you've already heard this, but there are serious problems in Montreal.

[Holly Flowers Code]

I'm certainly happy to take certain specific situations back and take a look at them. That should not be the case. We have bilingual capacity at all of our bilingual ports of service. We have supervisors and we have backup.

It doesn't seem that this individual got the service they should have, and that should be corrected.