Official Languages Committee on April 11th, 2024

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

The federal government's $4.1 billion in funding over five years has doubled since 2015. The Official Languages Act has been modernized for the first time in 50 years. We also had the strategic investment fund for post-secondary institutions, a program that supported infrastructure projects under which the University of Ottawa received several million dollars. Laurentian University also received $25 million under that program.

Mr. Frémont, you also talked about health care, medicine, pharmacology and law. Thank goodness there is federal money for that as well. The Université de l'Ontario français received federal funding. The University of Sudbury received $1.9 million in funding, entirely from federal coffers. By the way, thank you for your partnership with the University of Sudbury. In 2022, I also had the opportunity to announce $5 million in funding for the Collège nordique francophone in Yellowknife, together with the head of the college, Patrick Arsenault.

I understand your frustration—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

I'm sorry, Mr. Serré, but I have to interrupt you.

The bells are ringing for a vote in the House of Commons. Does the committee wish to continue the meeting?

[Some members]

Yes.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Since everyone is in agreement, please continue, Mr. Serré.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Frémont, I understand your frustration. Ontario's underfunding of post-secondary institutions has been chronic in recent years. That is why they had to recruit foreign students, of which there are close to a million. Some people say the conditions that foreign students are facing in those institutions are like puppy mills.

In your requests today, you say the federal government should be responsible for programs in French.

What is the University of Ottawa's annual shortfall?

Further, if it were a federal responsibility, what would you say to the Quebec government, for instance, or to Ms. Smith from Alberta, who says she will bring in legislation to prevent the federal government from getting directly involved in post-secondary institutions and municipalities?

[Dr. Jacques Frémont]

As a former professor of constitutional law, I can tell you that this is not an issue for Quebec since they have a law preventing institutions from receiving funding directly from the federal government, with the exception of funding bodies. That is good and it is clear that universities fall under provincial jurisdiction.

As to the francophone mission of francophone institutions, we suggest that you go ahead and intervene directly if necessary. You do that with the Consortium national de formation en santé, the national health training consortium, for instance.

You have to stop holding back. We saw that with what happened at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. People said universities were under provincial jurisdiction, and we asked the minister to set the institutions apart.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

How much would it cost the federal government annually to fully fund French-language programs?

[Dr. Jacques Frémont]

I am not saying the provinces should stop investing. What I am saying is that the federal government should be able to invest directly in minority-language institutions if necessary.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Yes, but if you focus on the federal government, wouldn't that encourage the Ford government to withdraw even more in this regard?

[Dr. Jacques Frémont]

That is indeed the problem, and it is a challenge. On the other hand, I do not think the federal government would be unable to find a way to get the provinces to shoulder their responsibilities, for example, by designating people in good faith to negotiate.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

You have the floor, Mr. Drouin.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Frémont, I was a student at your university before you were in your current position and I remember that the Desmarais building and the faculty of social sciences did not exist. At that time, there was construction all over Ontario precisely because Mr. McGuinty's government had made the political choice to invest in our institutions.

I don't know if it will take another Black Thursday. I know infrastructure is needed right across Canada. Unfortunately, some governments do not understand the need to invest in our post-secondary institutions.

I tend to think that artificial intelligence will have a major impact since it will demand continuous training because jobs will disappear much too quickly.

I support you 100%. If it means mobilizing the Franco-Ontario community and francophone communities across the country once again to get our message out, we will do that. Perhaps that is what we will have to do.

[Dr. Jacques Frémont]

It is exhausting for people who have to constantly fight to prove that the Earth is round in this regard.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Precisely.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

You had 10 seconds left, Mr. Drouin.

The message was loud and clear.

Mr. Beaulieu has the floor now for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

Something we haven't talked about is the idea that a university by and for francophones would be a good thing. When the Université de l'Ontario français was established, we saw that the University of Ottawa and other bilingual universities opposed it.

What are your thoughts on that, Mr. Frémont?

[Dr. Jacques Frémont]

Let me be clear. I have been the president and vice-chancellor of the University of Ottawa for eight years and we never opposed the creation of the Université de l'Ontario français. On the contrary, we have offered our assistance.

The “by and for” movement is entirely legitimate and necessary in Ontario. We recently announced a co-operation agreement with the University of Sudbury, specifically to pool our programs so twice the number of people could graduate.

In Ontario, the programs offered must be expanded in all regions. The University of Windsor, for instance, has needs in the fields of health care, social work and justice. We are starting to work with them to offer those one-year programs in French in order to train people who can work in French.

The key is expanding what is offered. The “by and for” movement helps expand what is offered. That is crucial.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Some people say that francophones tend to assimilate in bilingual institutions.

[Dr. Jacques Frémont]

We conducted an audit to see whether that was indeed the case and whether the University of Ottawa was in compliance with the French Language Services Act. We found that we were 98% in compliance. It was just in certain programs that the course sequence was off and an English course was needed to finish on time. That problem has since been corrected.

We are talking about a bilingual institution today, to be sure, but right now we have 250 undergraduate programs that are entirely in French and taught in French by francophones, with labs and placements in French.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's great.

Mr. Aito and Mr. Arsenault, in your requests did you ask for more universities “by and for” francophones?

[Emmanuel Aito]

Yes, absolutely. We rely a great deal on the co-operation we have developed with other institutions, which of course are not in Saskatchewan. So yes, we do support that approach in general.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Thank you, Mr. Aito and Mr. Beaulieu.

Ms. Ashton now has the floor for two and a half minutes. She will be the last speaker.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As we know, there is an affordability crisis in Canada right now. Young people right across the country are grappling with increasingly tough economic conditions. The challenges also include housing, food prices and career plans. It is increasingly expensive to get a post-secondary education.

Gentlemen, this study pertains to the funding of post-secondary institutions, but there can be no institutions without students. I would like to know what you would recommend to our students—young Canadians, young francophones and those who want to study in French—to deal with the affordability crisis. What could the federal government do to help them and make it possible for them to continue their studies with you?

[Dr. Jacques Frémont]

Thank you.

In my mind, funding is really the key. The important thing is not to break the education continuum of students who, after high school, decide to pursue their university education in English. In those cases, they would end up working in English and becoming detached from their sector.

Scholarship programs would be a good way to encourage students to study in French. There could also be scholarships for francophone immigrants settling in the region. Immigrants have the choice to become part of the anglophone network or the francophone community. So they could be encouraged to choose the francophone community and become part of it.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

What do you think, Mr. Aito?