Official Languages Committee on April 15th, 2024

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. LeBlanc, you said that most of your funding comes from the OLEP, so you have to keep a close eye on all the negotiations related to the new memoranda of understanding between the federal government and the provinces. I believe the last one was ending in 2023.

Is there a new memorandum of understanding coming? What's the status of the work?

You said earlier that you weren't consulted enough because of the bilateral agreements. Overall, what needs to be improved so that it meets your needs more closely?

[Gino LeBlanc]

That's a very good question. In my opinion, we're touching on a point that could generate some interesting recommendations from your committee.

I wouldn't say that the province, namely British Columbia, doesn't consult us. Post-secondary institutions are consulted. This is true of Collège Éducacentre and ours as well. At the federal level, we have a good relationship with the Department of Canadian Heritage by default.

However, there is a government-to-government negotiation afterwards in which we really don't participate. The negotiation takes place without us. We then hope that our Deputy Minister of Education will defend the interests of our university and those of the Conseil scolaire francophone de la Colombie-Britannique.

This is where community engagement comes in. We can imagine a governance model that isn't exclusively governmental and only involving the federal and provincial governments, where not all partners are at the table. I know we're not an elected government. On the other hand, I think there could be some creativity.

ACUFC's recommendation is excellent. It talks about a national consultation table, in addition to the existing one. Mr. Samson alluded to it earlier, in the presence of the other witnesses. I think it's relevant, too. So we're talking about a national table on post-secondary education. I think we could collaborate a great deal more. This idea has barely been discussed, but we could collaborate on a system in Western Canada, in Acadia, and so on.

There are a multitude of possibilities. Right now, the way we do things is a bit old-fashioned. We've been doing it for 20 years and it hasn't changed. I think we can come up with something else.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Please feel free to send us some of your ideas in writing. It could inform our recommendations.

I'd like to know if you have any teachers or students from Quebec.

How would you be affected if French continued to decline in Quebec?

[Gino LeBlanc]

Quebec is very important to us, because it's a francophone space on which we rely, whether in terms of pedagogy or reading material. Life in French in Canada needs Quebec. There's no doubt about that. But attracting people is difficult. Indeed, it's almost impossible to attract someone from Trois-Rivières to Simon Fraser University because of the cost of living, but also, simply, because of tuition fees. That's a challenge. That said, we do recruit on the teaching side, on the faculty side. You're right about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. LeBlanc. We will come back to that.

Ms. Ashton, you have two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to come back to the labour shortage.

Mr. LeBlanc, you talked about the work you do in training and support. Not only recruitment, but also retention.

In your opinion, would stable and adequate funding for your institution from the federal government help you do your work, which contributes to the recruitment and retention of francophone teachers in your province?

[Gino LeBlanc]

The answer is yes. I'm sure your committee's research department will find studies from the Commissioner of Official Languages for you. The Canadian Association of Immersion Professionals, or CAIP, also comes to mind, as well as the University of British Columbia, which has done research on all the aspects that would enable us to retain francophones in a minority-language education system. There's some wonderful research out there that will no doubt provide inspiration.

As for whether stable, predictable and adequate funding would help us, that is certainly the case. After all, we're constantly applying for funding. We're also accountable, which I don't have a problem with. We submit reports with indicators. We're very good at that. The fact remains that we're talking about 24-month cycles here, whereas in reality, training a teacher is a four or five-year project. In that sense, I'd like to see funding that is multi-year, much more stable and predictable, that comes from the OLEP rather than temporary envelopes.

I remind you that the envelope for post-secondary education is indeed temporary. It is not guaranteed beyond 2028. One can imagine that governments won't dare abolish the OLEP, given that it's among their responsibilities. In my opinion, the situation would be much improved if the OLEP were truly enhanced, as has been much of the funding for community organizations in recent years.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

Mr. Good, I'd like to ask you the same question. At Campus Saint-Jean, you're helping to alleviate the labour shortage in French immersion educational programs. Would stable, adequate and predictable funding help you maintain the work you're doing to address this labour shortage?

[Taylor Good]

The short answer is yes, absolutely. Funding is critical for retention.

On the other hand, I would also say that in Alberta, 43,000 students are enrolled in an immersion school and 122,000 are taking French as a second language courses. These are significant numbers. So the transition from high school to post-secondary is a really important issue.

Retention is indeed important at Campus Saint-Jean, but we also need to ensure that those seeking to become teachers have the opportunity to do so. Funding must therefore enable this too.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Good.

Thank you, Ms. Ashton. Your time is up.

There is enough time left for the Conservatives and Liberals to each have a three and half-minute round.

Mr. Godin, you have three and a half minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

My question is for Mr. LeBlanc, but first, I'd like to compliment Mr. Good on his excellent French.

Mr. Good, it's inspiring to see young people like you speak French well and get involved. You know your file very well. Bravo!

Mr. LeBlanc, we haven't talked about access for those following an educational pathway from early childhood to post-secondary education.

A recent decision had an impact on post-secondary institutions. We heard testimony from the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne last week regarding international students.

Will the student immigration decision have an effect on your institution?

[Gino LeBlanc]

This certainly affects us, as it does everyone else, although some other institutions may be more affected. We've had emergency meetings on this over the last few days, as you can imagine.

In my opinion, what is most shocking about this decision is that the Official Languages Act has just been modernized and a new Official Languages Action Plan launched. And yet a Minister of the Crown chooses to make a decision that is going to be downright detrimental to French-language establishments. I think the Minister put up a lot of resistance to this argument. I thought it was a bit odd that he said post-secondary institutions wanted students at a discount. I think what we're really trying to do is make sure we have access to this “incubator,” these foreign students who play a very important role in the country's francophonie, from Acadia to Western Canada.

We still find ourselves in an unstable situation because of the cap on the number of study permits issued to foreign students. I think we were caught by surprise, as leaders of post-secondary institutions. We're a little concerned that the federal government can simultaneously announce an update to the law and a new action plan and make a decision that's really going to hurt a lot of institutions.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Economically speaking, does this cap have a real impact? Do we have enough people here in Canada to fill the available spots in your programs? Listening to you earlier, I understood that you had a shortage of teachers and that the spots in your programs seemed quite full.

Is this having a major impact, or are you able to fill the spots in your programs with students who went to high school in Canada?

The announcement was made in January, and we still have a few months to turn things around.

Have you explored the possibility of going out and recruiting high school students for next fall?

[Gino LeBlanc]

British Columbia has always been a province founded on immigration. As you've probably already heard, demographically speaking, French-speaking families aren't having enough children. So we're going to need francophone immigration in British Columbia and throughout French-speaking Canada.

In the case of teacher training, the process is extremely complex. It is regulated by a professional association that has important, but also very strict, criteria that must be followed. Finding a French-speaking teacher in Belgium, bringing them to British Columbia, training them, getting them accredited by the professional association, giving them the tools—all this is an important process that we follow, but it's not a gateway. It's not a direct link between the classroom in Europe and the classroom in British Columbia.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you.

[Gino LeBlanc]

It's one part of the solution.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. LeBlanc.

Before giving the floor to my colleague Mr. Samson for the next three and a half minutes, I'm going to encroach a little on his time.

Mr. LeBlanc, you spoke earlier about this fabled protocol, of which we hear very little.

You seemed to have ideas for templates, or perhaps suggestions, that could improve the way the report on this study is written.

Could you send them to us later, in writing, through our clerk, so that we can take a close look at them?

We often hear from university representatives about core funding, but we have yet to hear a proposal on how it should be delivered.

Should it be paid directly to institutions by the federal government through the provincial government as part of tripartite agreements, or come directly from the province?

What proposal would you like this committee to retain so that it can incorporate it into its report?

Moreover, Mr. Good, as Mr. Godin said—I'll say it again—you're quite good at your job. If you think you can add your two cents on these matters, I invite you to do so in writing. We'd really appreciate it. The invitation also extends to Mr. LeBlanc.

I now give the floor for the remaining two and a half minutes to my colleague Mr. Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Chair. Since you used up some of my three minutes, I don't have much time.

I'd still like to address you very quickly, Mr. LeBlanc, because you touched on a few things I'd like to come back to.

Twenty years ago, we didn't talk about a continuum of French-language studies. Only primary and secondary studies could be done in French, a mortal sin. We spent years clamouring for access to post-secondary studies in French and finally got it.

You referred to the Official Languages in Education Program, or OLEP, and I appreciate your comments on the subject.

In 2005, I became superintendent of a French-language school board. I met with representatives of the Department of Canadian Heritage, who told me that, in order to obtain funding, the process was generally like in the Meech Lake Accord: you need the agreement of seven provinces and 51% of the vote, and that I had no chance of succeeding. So “discretionary” slots had to be created.

I still want to raise the issue of bilateral funding.

You talked about relationships with the provinces, which is very important. In 2016–2017, the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones signed the Strategic Plan on French-Language Education.

This plan included, if I can put it this way, a simple obligation for the provinces to make sure they consult with provincial school boards and highlight their priorities before establishing funding. Certain issues could then be addressed during the consultations. They were thus obliged to consult school boards to highlight their priorities in order to help them build an action plan under the new OLEP.

Since you referred to it, can you tell me if this is how things are done? Perhaps we should reopen this issue to allow access to the provinces and territories?

[Gino LeBlanc]

In the case of British Columbia, things are going well so far.

As you know, the situation is not as easy for Ontario and Alberta, but I wasn't speaking on their behalf.

So, in that sense, we need to find mechanisms that allow us all to participate in consultations throughout the process, and not just for one afternoon.

Mr. Good could also answer your question.

[Taylor Good]

I would say the same thing.

It's not that simple here in Alberta, especially since the position of Parliamentary Secretary for Francophonie was eliminated. That role was crucial to the rounds and discussions.

So I absolutely agree with Mr. LeBlanc.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'd like to thank everyone, including the witnesses.

Before concluding, I would like to acknowledge the presence of our tireless supporters Mr. Deltell and Mr. Maguire, who attended this meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, the best committee in town.

Mr. Good, our colleague Ms. Kusie told you earlier that another MP among us attended your institution before being elected.

A fellow MP who attended your very institution became Minister for Official Languages, and we could be forgetting others.

So the Standing Committee on Official Languages may be sending you a cryptic message, as you wrap you up your final year of university.

Dear witnesses, thank you again very much. This has been a fascinating discussion for all involved. Please take the time to write to us. We would very much like to get the additional information that you did not have time to send us, as we draft our report.

Thank you all very much for taking part in this exercise.

The meeting is adjourned.