Official Languages Committee on April 15th, 2024

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you very much. I only have a minute left.

Is the current network of post-secondary institutions meeting the needs of francophone communities outside Quebec? As I only have a minute left, I would ask you to answer briefly.

[Allister Surette]

I imagine you're talking about the broader network.

We belong to a number of national organizations, some of which I've chaired. The same challenges often come up. I think that consultation is important because, in many cases, the federal government and the various agencies and departments are disconnected from the provinces and territories. For example, in Nova Scotia, we have the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, we have the Department of Advanced Education, which is normally not involved in the slightest in funding the Official Languages in Education Program, and finally, we have the institutions. If all these groups could only work together to discuss the wider issues in some detail, that would be important, in my opinion.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Surette and Ms. Koutrakis.

The third speaker is the second vice-chair of the committee and a member of the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for Ms. Roy.

A number of studies have shown the chronic underfunding of post-secondary institutions in francophone minority settings. Can you tell us a little more about the causes and tell us why you think things will improve over the next few years? Do you see things starting to get better? Are the recommendations you've made being implemented?

[Liane Roy]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Beaulieu.

I hope things are getting better. I hope we didn't draft the final report of the États généraux sur le postsecondaire en contexte francophone minoritaire for nothing. At the very least, it's making people and the government aware of the importance of post-secondary institutions in our minority regions and of the weakening of our regions.

Underfunding is nothing new. As I mentioned in my opening statement, many institutions in our regions are located in old religious buildings and so on. There are also a lot of infrastructure costs, to ensure that they're up to modern standards.

Underfunding comes from several places, such as provincial and territorial authorities, as you know. The federal government often invests in official languages in the provinces and territories. It's the same thing with regard to post-secondary and early childhood education. The needs aren't always well known, and as a result, meeting them can be difficult.

The goal of the national dialogue was to identify all those needs and figure out which areas of our institutions had the greatest funding shortfalls. The funding issue is complex, which is why we recommended developing a tool that would allow us to track all those investments. That way, we could ensure that post-secondary institutions in our communities can access these funds directly.

I mentioned research, another area where francophone institutions and researchers have a really hard time getting their hands on funding. This is some of the collateral damage that is also affecting post-secondary education. University president Mr. Surette is probably in a much better position than me to speak in greater detail to the issue of institutional funding.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'll be giving Mr. Surette the opportunity to respond, but before that, I'd like to touch on the asymmetry you mentioned earlier.

We know that the Government of Quebec is overfunding anglophone universities. According to the last figures I saw, 22% of the funding goes to anglophone universities, whereas the anglophone minority represents about 8% or 9% of Quebec's population. In terms of federal funding for research support funds, English-language universities in Quebec receive between 35% and 40% of the funding.

Don't you think that all of this should be recalibrated, particularly the criteria for funding research funds? It has been said that francophone universities outside Quebec and francophone universities in Quebec are disadvantaged.

Mr. Surette or Ms. Roy, could you tell us more about that?

[Liane Roy]

For research funding, I will give the floor to Mr. Surette. There are significant needs on the francophone side for this.

[Allister Surette]

I think that you have already heard that the largest universities are more apt to get research funding since English is the dominant language in this field. On one hand, that makes it harder for our researchers to request funding and, on the other hand, in many cases, they get the impression that they are more likely to be heard if they write or apply in English. That is one challenge.

We are a very small minority, both among post-secondary institutions and in the general public, especially here in Nova Scotia. We have a student population of 500 individuals, while there are nine anglophone universities and a large anglophone community college. We are still far from substantive equality. We offer far fewer programs.

The provincial government generally underfunds all the universities, but it is much more obvious here at home because we cannot manage to achieve the economies of scale and offer all the services and programs that we want to offer. It is a bit like the chicken and the egg. We cannot attract the students if we do not offer as many programs as the anglophone universities.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Surette. You can elaborate in answering other questions.

We will now hear the last questions for this round, those from the New Democratic Party.

Ms. Ashton, you have six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much.

Welcome to the witnesses.

My first question is for you, Ms. Roy. Obviously, the purpose of this study is to make recommendations to the federal government. You have already made three, but I want to make sure that I understand one request in particular.

We know that repeated requests for funding by francophone post-secondary institutions, to be able to fulfill their mission within francophone communities, are not being met. To be clear, is the FCFA requesting more funding for francophone minority post-secondary institutions?

[Liane Roy]

Thank you for your question, Ms. Ashton.

The answer is simple: yes. We certainly support the requests from the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne, the ACUFC. It is perfectly familiar with its network and we support it. The ACUFC is requesting $80 million in additional funding to have stable core funding. That is why we support its request.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you for clarifying.

I want to come back to the connection between the francophone universities and the community. You talked about it, Mr. Surette, and other witnesses did as well. We know that francophone universities are essential to minority communities. They allow for a continuum in education. They contribute to the vitality of the communities and they allow people to live in French on the campuses and in the municipalities.

Ms. Roy and Mr. Surette, can you elaborate on the importance or the central character of francophone universities for minority communities?

[Liane Roy]

Yes, absolutely.

The community component is the reason we wanted to participate in the national dialogue on post-secondary education in a francophone minority context. Post-secondary institutions are places with a student social life, but they are also important for the neighbouring communities. Mr. Surette talked a bit about the importance of Université Sainte‑Anne to his region in Nova Scotia and the same goes everywhere there are colleges and universities. They promote youth leadership, establish a connection with the secondary schools and ensure a continuum of education. In the case of universities, these are places where all the buildings are available for volunteer activities and to groups who want to organize various activities there. This community component is integral to the institutions.

For example, in rural regions where there is a post-secondary school, it is often the main employer in the region. You can imagine what the presence of such an establishment does economically speaking. It has an impact on jobs, on people's health and on all the establishments in the region. Each institution plays a role in the community.

[Allister Surette]

Would you like me to add something?

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Yes, please.

[Allister Surette]

We are putting on a presentation on community anchoring at a conference next week. I am currently on the main campus of Université Sainte‑Anne. I have a view of Baie Sainte‑Marie and I can see a lighthouse. Our university is the only one that has a lighthouse on campus, so keep in mind that we are in a very rural area. We are integrated in our community. We are one of the largest employers in our community.

Earlier I made reference to the private sector. We have a special partnership agreement with the Nova Scotia Economic Development Board. We work with lobster fishers on the quality of lobster and aquaculture. We also have a special partnership with the homogenized francophone school board here in Nova Scotia, the Acadian provincial school board. I am sure that Darrell Samson has spoken to you about it.

We work closely on the teacher shortage file. Here, we offer a BA in education. That is one of our special programs. We are trying to train teachers for the system.

In a purely social context, we welcomed Bernard Voyer a week or two ago. He put on a really nice presentation not only to the university community, but also to the local community. There are also seminars and so on.

We are really integrated in our community.

As I was saying earlier, as president, I have been very involved in advancing the cause of Nova Scotia's francophonie, including as president of not-for-profit associations. As you know, French is very precarious in our communities. English is dominant in social media, anglophone media and among our young people. We have to make a concerted effort and certainly come together with other community organizations. I talked about governments earlier, but there are also community organizations.

I work a lot with the regional municipality where the main campus is located. You can imagine what an asset it is for the municipality of the region to have an institution like ours and its infrastructure.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Surette and Ms. Ashton.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

The next questions will be asked by the first vice-chair of this committee, Mr. Joël Godin.

You have five minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses, Ms. Roy and Mr. Surette.

Ms. Roy, we have the privilege of having regular discussions. We worked actively together on the modernization of the Official Languages Act, and I felt privileged.

The new version of the Official Languages Act mentions post-secondary studies. That is the first time.

Ms. Roy, how does this new legislation provide additional tools to ensure the vitality and survival of francophone post-secondary institutions in official language minority communities?

[Liane Roy]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Godin.

I think that is why we worked so hard on modernizing this legislation. This is the first time that legislation mentions the continuum of education, from early childhood to post-secondary education, from everything having to do with formal training, non-formal and informal, as well as everything to do with consultation, which is found in Part VII of the Official Languages Act. It was important to specify these things in this legislation.

This legislation includes another very important component and that is the possibility of consulting stakeholders and the community to see how we can meet the needs of the community. As we just saw, the community is vast and the same goes for the institutions.

There is also the whole issue of the precariousness and decline of French. Achieving equality of status and use of French includes post-secondary schools as well because that is where we train people and our workforce of tomorrow. That is also where we train thinkers and educators.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Roy.

[Liane Roy]

I apologize.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Do not apologize. It is always a pleasure to hear what you have to say. However, you know that our time is limited here in committee.

I hear you. You say that the legislation allows for consultations to be held and that is the first time the legislation mentions it.

Tangibly, are there tools in this legislation that will help stop the decline of French, or protect or promote both official languages? Obviously, the most vulnerable language is French. How does this legislation, which was implemented a year ago, provide additional tools?

Ms. Roy, you may begin to answer, but I will ask Mr. Surette to respond as well.

[Liane Roy]

Of course, the regulations will clarify several aspects of the legislation. We still do not have all the wording of the regulations, but we are working hard with the various stakeholders, including Canadian Heritage and Treasury Board, to ensure that it will be used as a solid foundation for enforcing the legislation. As part of the education agreements on post-secondary instruction, the federal government is required to take the necessary measures to ensure that these elements are in the agreements. I can list the sections: 41—