Evidence of meeting #12 for Official Languages in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was it’s.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker
Thank you, Mr. Chamberland.
We will now move on to the questions from members.
Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chamberland, thank you for being here.
I think the exercise we are doing is important. It’s important to understand one thing: the study we’re conducting does not seek to diminish the effectiveness or profitability of private radio stations.
Here, we’re at the Standing Committee on Official Languages. This committee is mandated to find solutions in relation to both official languages, English and French. I’m pointing this out because some parties do not understand bilingualism in Canada. For proof, they appointed a Governor General who does not speak French. For my part, I want to make sure that it’s understood that there are two official languages in Canada: English and French.
As a private company, you must be viable. You have given us some solutions. Witnesses representing community radio stations appeared during the first hour of the meeting. You also talked to us about the major stakeholder that is CBC/Radio‑Canada. How can you live sandwiched between these two types of broadcasters?
Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media
In fact, the Canadian system was built on three pillars, for all sorts of reasons: the community, CBC/Radio‑Canada, and the private sector. It’s a system that, to this day, works pretty well.
That said, for our part we are certainly caught in the middle. If there’s a quick solution I can discuss with you, it’s that of the client government. We mentioned it during the hearings on the future of news media at the National Assembly of Quebec. What we said was that the government isn’t even a client. The government does not invest in local media; it invests instead in foreign platforms.
Is anyone going to stand up and say that enough is enough, that we need to invest in local media, invest in local information and invest in local staff?
When I say we need to invest in advertising, I mean we need to buy advertising as a user, as a customer. The government has the obligation to inform the population equally across Canada, in every little corner of the country. To do this, you just need to buy advertising in local media, whether it’s radio, television, weekly publications or any local community media. It will generate additional revenue.
Personally, I find that it’s an easy solution to implement. We don’t need to create 25 committees. Someone just needs to wake up. In Quebec, someone woke up and the province did it.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Mr. Chamberland, I come from that world and I can tell you that you are absolutely right.
However, the advertising buyer wants results and wants to reach the largest number of people. The analysis likely being done by the federal government is that, since Canada’s network is not good, they need to buy advertising on foreign platforms. The first goal is to reach as many people as possible, and maybe it’s been achieved.
However, we must not forget that this involves public funds. Should we support our Canadian businesses and participate in the model that exists here? That’s the question. Beyond the primary goal of reaching as many people as possible, how can we do that?
Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media
You’re right.
I’m not demonizing the platforms of the giants. Regardless, they’re here to stay. What I’m saying is that there’s definitely a middle ground. Instead of investing the majority of its money in foreign platforms, the government could invest a portion locally. We’re not talking about a budget increase, but a budget reallocation. For me, it’s a fundamental element.
Conservative
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
This is where I wanted to lead you. Foreign platforms also have a role to play when it comes to French‑language content.
Your request is to reduce the quota for French music. To be honest, I don’t necessarily share the same opinion. If I were told that without it, we would go bankrupt, then I would be open. However, before we get there—
Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media
It must be said that 50% of radio stations are no longer making money in Canada. That’s 50%.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
It’s the danger that hangs over our heads.
How can we reconcile the mandate to promote both official languages, with French being the most vulnerable language, and the vitality of private broadcasting companies?
Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media
I think we don’t calculate and we don’t take into account the contribution of all radio stations to francophone life beyond the music quota. For example, repeatedly throughout the day, we conduct interviews, meet with artists and so on. I’m the first to say that I support emerging music. I hope that new artists become known, and all that—
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Excuse me for interrupting you, Mr. Chamberland, but my speaking time is very limited.
When you present a new francophone artist, couldn’t you give them five points instead of just one at that stage?
Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media
Certainly; exactly.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
We were just talking about how community radio pours its heart out daily to help artists grow, and then we see them on Tout le monde en parle, as was the case this weekend. Who makes money from that?
Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media
That is where the system is broken. You are absolutely right; you did your homework.
Indeed, it’s not complicated. There should be a scoring system that rewards radio stations, for example, when they play music from emerging artists.
We have journalists everywhere. We just hired one in Drummondville. Imagine, there weren’t any in Drummondville. We’re going to launch an information platform to try to spread local news, which costs money. We even hired journalists in Amqui, in small little towns. That costs us money. We send our journalists, they cover the news, they process it and we release it. However, some people then take that news and they are the ones who make money from the broadcasting. That’s where the problem lies.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker
I’m sorry, but time is up. Thank you, Mr. Godin.
I now give the floor to Mr. Deschênes-Thériault for six minutes.
Liberal
Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chamberland, thank you very much for your testimony.
Canada operates within a context of using two official languages. Through the Official Languages Act, the government is committed to supporting the vitality of our two official language communities, English and French. Furthermore, the preamble of the modernized law states that we also have a commitment to protect and promote French in particular, given its minority status in North America. This also concerns Quebec.
In this context, during a consultation with the Canadian Radio‑television and Telecommunications Commission and in your testimony, you stated that commercial radio should not bear the burden of promoting the French language on its own. I completely agree. This is a collective responsibility that involves a variety of sectors, including radio. However, while not being the sole contributors to the vitality of French, commercial radio stations still play an important role in promoting francophone artists, in the presence of French on the airwaves and in the discoverability of French‑language content.
I’d like to hear your comments on the importance of the role that commercial radio stations, including those in Quebec, play in supporting the vitality of French.
Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media
Obviously, their role is important. In any case, we are applying a quota. As I said, we do not count the total contribution of each of our radio stations to the French-speaking world throughout the day. In my opinion, that is not the question and I would like to highlight two things.
First, if there are no more radio stations to defend the French language, the quota will be a theoretical discourse. There will still be CBC/Radio‑Canada and community radio stations. Ultimately, the important thing is that we can at least keep the radio stations alive.
Second, everyone is avoiding the issue of the current quota of 65% French‑language content, but French‑language music is not being consumed at the moment. It’s only consumed at a rate of 4%. Someone should therefore ask if there’s a gap between 4% and 65%. It’s like walking into a candy store: everyone wants to buy Rockets, but the store only offers gummies, which nobody wants. We should therefore offer a few less gummies and a few more Rockets.
Liberal
Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
On the other hand, in previous testimony, we heard that community radio stations exceeded the 65% quota. For example, in New Brunswick, there has been an increase in the number of listeners where the content is predominantly French‑language.
When I talk to you about vitality, you immediately mentioned that, indeed, the quotas are applied. If I understand your comments correctly, however, you are suggesting a certain form of disengagement from commercial radio by reducing the quota for French‑language music.
Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media
Yes, but we’re talking about 40%, which remains one of the highest quotas in the world. As for me, I’m in.
Community radio stations receive grants for everything. They have access to all kinds of programs and have new equipment. In addition, the bingos bring them revenue. Community stations have become huge in Quebec and are wealthier than commercial stations. The latter cannot seriously be compared to community stations, given the completely protected system in which community stations operate, while commercial stations are left to fend for themselves.
Furthermore, I repeat, commercial stations face competition from CBC/Radio‑Canada, which funds its online content. No one is opposed to CBC/Radio‑Canada selling advertising, even though it’s not allowed to do so, but it does it indirectly. No one is denouncing this practice to put an end to it. The government should invest before asking commercial stations to maintain the quota at 65%. We cannot rely solely on theoretical speeches.
Liberal
Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
However, you say that the quota imposed in Canada to protect the language is one of the highest in the world. In itself, this can be explained because we must support the vitality of our two official languages. It is therefore normal for that to be reflected in our public policies and the regulations we adopt.
Let’s talk about francophone artists. How could we ensure their discoverability if one of the main distribution channels reduces its commitment to them by lowering its quota? What impact do you think that reduction in quotas will have on emerging francophone artists?
Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media
We focus on francophone artists, but we don’t look at the situation as a whole.
I will repeat that we’re in favour of promoting emerging artists. We’re in very small areas, in tiny little towns, where people want to play their music, and we’re happy to do it. I support emerging music, and even with a 40% quota, we could play a lot of it.
Our main argument is not just to request a reduction in the quota for French‑language music. What broadcasters are throwing you as a lifeline is to look at the facts. I’m telling you, if you think we have a democracy problem right now, there will be a big one in 10 to 15 years, because there won’t be any journalists left—
Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media
—and there will be no more radio stations to promote francophone music. At that point, there will be no more watchdogs anywhere in the small communities across Canada. The point I want to make is that we need to look at the situation as a whole.
Liberal
Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Excuse me, but we only have 15 seconds left.
The vitality of a language also depends on its presence in the public space, and radio is a fundamental player in the public space. Do you agree with me that hearing French music on the radio contributes to the vitality of French in public spaces?