Official Languages Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Welcome to meeting number 14 of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on September 25, 2025, we’re meeting today to continue our study on the quota of French-language music imposed on French-language radio media.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses for the first hour. From Cogeco Media inc., we have Caroline Jamet, president, and from Les Productions Normand, we welcome Alexis Normand, artist entrepreneur, by videoconference.

Welcome to both of you. You will each have five minutes for your opening remarks. We will then proceed to a question and answer period with members of the committee.

Before we start, I see Mr. Godin’s has his hand raised.

Mr. Godin, the floor is yours.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before hearing testimony, I think it’s important to be realistic and understand that something particular happened in official languages last week. We lost Mr. Steven Guilbeault, our minister for Official Languages, who was also the minister for Canadian Identity and Culture at the Department of Canadian Heritage.

I know I’m not in line with the required 48-hour notice to study the motion. The plan for Thursday was to hear from the president of the Treasury Board and the minister for Official Languages regarding the situation with the Prime Minister, the use of French and the importance and impact it has on government bodies.

I would therefore like the Chair’s consent to table a motion for convening a meeting on Thursday.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

I will consult the clerk.

Mr. Godin, do you wish to give notice of motion or do you wish to table it?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I would like to give notice, but the instructions in the motion refer to Thursday, December 4. Yes, I want to table the notice, but I also want it treated as urgent, to fast-track it, so that we can debate it today, because it affects Thursday’s agenda.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

I consulted the clerk. You have the right to give notice of motion, because I gave you the floor. You can do that at any time, but you may do it now because I gave you the floor.

If you want to move the motion, you require the committee’s unanimous consent. I’m not the one who decides.

I must inform the committee members about a few procedural points. The first hour is reserved for our witnesses. The second hour will be in camera to discuss a report on another subject.

If you get unanimous consent and table the motion, the committee will be seized with it.

It is therefore up to you, the committee members, to decide. The other possibility is to move it during the meeting’s second hour, when the witnesses are done testifying. It is up to the committee to decide, and it is up to you, Mr. Godin, to make your request.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Indeed, Mr. Chair, I request unanimous consent for us to debate the following motion. I will read out the notice of motion I’m tabling before you today, Tuesday, December 2, 2025, and we will see for the rest.

That, given the resignation of the Honourable Steven Guilbeault as Minister of Official Languages, the Committee instead invite the Honourable Marc Miller, Minister of Official Languages, to appear before the Committee for no less than two hours on Thursday, December 4, 2025, regarding the subject matters for which Minister Guilbeault had been invited, and that the clerk of the Committee send this invitation forthwith.

I think it is important to show we want to address official languages, and the fact that there’s been a change of minister will not mean the French language is any less vulnerable. It is truly vulnerable. I think it’s important to act now.

I therefore request the committee’s unanimous consent to approve my motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

You’re asking for us to do this immediately. Is that right, Mr. Godin?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Do we have unanimous consent for Mr. Godin to move his motion now?

Ms. Chenette, the floor is yours.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I don’t know the rules. I’ll say that right now. I don’t want to make a faux pas. However, I do not think that, given the deadlines we have, the new minister is ready to meet with us. We must be realistic.

I can understand why Mr. Godin wants to have the minister. I don’t know if I am saying “yes” to the motion or “no” to the motion. I do not agree with forcing the minister to come meet with us. Furthermore, it’s his prerogative, but it’s not realistic to think he could come this Thursday.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Several people want the floor; Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault, then Ms. Mingarelli.

I want to clarify something, because I want to be sure we understand Mr. Godin’s request. We planned to hear our witnesses and proceed with a round of questions, as per usual. What Mr. Godin is asking for is unanimous consent from the committee so that he can immediately move the motion he just read out.

If you give your consent, we will start debating the motion. That is what he is asking. We’re not kicking off a debate on the minister’s attendance. The question I’m asking committee members right now is this: Do we have unanimous consent for Mr. Godin to move his motion now?

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

So, in this context, my answer is no. It’s not because I’m minimizing the importance of French and the Francophonie. It’s very important and we need to discuss those things presently.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

We therefore do not have unanimous consent.

We can now move on to statements from our witnesses.

Thank you for being with us. You each have five minutes to give your opening remarks.

We will then move on to a round of questions and answers with committee members.

Ms. Jamet, I give you the floor for five minutes.

[Caroline Jamet, President, Cogeco Media inc.]

Thank you.

Honourable MPs, members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, thank you for granting me the opportunity to testify before you today.

I am Caroline Jamet, and I’m the president of Cogeco Media. We head 21 radio stations in Quebec and Eastern Ontario, which reach nearly 4.5 million listeners per week.

French-language radio advertising is an essential pillar of our culture and local news, but regulatory unfairness in the face of foreign web giants is threatening its survival. To protect our local voices, the government must act now and level the playing field by supporting our industry.

We are passionate about radio. We believe in its unique force as well as in our fundamental role. For more than 40 years, we’ve been a key player in the free flow of ideas and information, contributing to Quebecois and Canadian culture for the local communities we serve. We are committed to keep playing this role.

French-language music on our airwaves is part of our mission, and so is promoting local artists. We also cover the rich cultural vitality in other areas like film, theatre and books.

We share the goal of promoting Canadian musical content. Our commitment goes well beyond broadcasting music on our airwaves. We conduct over 500 interviews a year with artists, and that’s not counting cultural columns and promotional events. Those are all contributions that the Canadian Radio Television and Telecommunications Commission, or CRTC, does not recognize or measure.

The commercial French-language radio industry is now under threat.

The arrival of foreign digital platforms disrupted Canadians’ listening habits. The regulatory framework, created for our industry during the last century, never changed. Foreign platforms are eroding our revenue, and our audiences have no regulatory constraints.

Montreal’s French-language music radio lost 40% of its listening hours over five years. On the revenue side, foreign digital platforms, mostly American, attract 10 billion of the $14.3 billion of the country’s advertising investment dollars. Only 30% of advertising revenue reach Canadian media, and barely 4% reach radio.

It is urgent to act, so that our radio stations can keep playing their role.

Furthermore, we are living in a time of growing disinformation, which is eroding our democracy. The journalistic content and local information we offer are more essential now than ever. In a recent SOM poll of Quebeckers, 90% of respondents think that the media, including private radio, is important for democracy, and 85% were of the opinion that private radio broadcasts credible information.

Most of the time, we are the only bulwark against the spread of news deserts.

We cover real regional life and communicate citizens’ opinions, which foreign digital platforms will never do. CNN and Fox News will never tell the inhabitants of Saint Jerome about local events, or cover the Lake St-Jean International Crossing.

American web giants and large foreign platforms are the source of the crisis we’re living through now. Holders of unprecedented market power, these foreign companies are waging unfair competition for audiences and breaking our sector’s business model.

We therefore ask the government and the CRTC to act. To do so, the federal government can and must intervene on five fronts.

First, section 19 of the Income Tax Act contains a loophole allowing Canadian advertisers to deduct their advertising expenses when they buy ads from platforms like Facebook. The loophole encourages advertisers to invest in foreign platforms instead of Canadian media. It’s incompatible with the issues affecting our local media.

We call on this committee to recommend that the government extend the application of section 19 to foreign online businesses. It would level the playing field and encourage investment in Canadian media.

Second, we are asking for broadcaster incentives to promote buying media from Canadian media.

Third, we ask the federal government to set an example: end preferential purchasing of advertising from foreign digital media, and choose Canadian media instead. Every dollar sent abroad is a dollar taken away from Canadian media fighting for their survival. Furthermore, the public very broadly supports a policy favouring local media. It garnered support from 87% of francophone Quebeckers, according to SOM.

Fourth, the government must support journalism. Currently excluded from programs benefitting other media, our ask is for radio to be included in the Canadian journalism labour tax credit.

Fifth, the CRTC must lighten the regulatory burden weighing on our industry, since other platforms have no requirements at all.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much, Ms. Jamet.

I now give the floor to Ms. Normand for five minutes.

[Alexis Normand, Artist-Entrepreneur, Les Productions Normand]

Good morning, I am Alexis Normand, a writer, composer and performer. I make jazz-inspired folk music, and I also direct documentaries. In life, I consider myself to be a Franco-Saskatchewan artist entrepreneur. For more than 20 years, my art has explored language, identities and the history of those who are part of the Canadian Francophonie.

I’ll start with the obvious: reducing French-language song quotas is a major mistake for the survival of French. For me, a Canadian francophone artist, and for my colleagues, the issue goes beyond language. These cuts would weaken an already fragile cultural ecosystem, which allows our voices to exist on the air. It’s a matter of visibility, but it’s mostly a matter of identity. Our accents, our dialects and our stories are rarely sung on commercial radio. Quotas are sometimes the only thing guaranteeing that a French-Canadian song will reach the public in Quebec, for example, even if the song is solid, catchy and competitive. Reducing the quota would reduce our chances of being heard to nearly nothing. In my opinion, not only should the quotas be maintained, but a certain percentage should be reserved for the Canadian Francophonie’s artists. We deserve to be on the air, to be heard and to see our accents and our experiences normalized. If the quota is cut, it would be to make room for what, more English-language music? Would a 40% quota still mean that it’s a French-language radio station? For my album to be considered francophone by the music industry, here in Canada, at least 70% of the songs have to be in French. Sponsors count the words, in fact. Nothing less than 70% is considered francophone.

I want to express a concern. I remain unconvinced that the shrinking audience for French-language commercial radio has any connection with music in French, especially since English-language commercial radio stations are experiencing the same decline. I’m frustrated to see that reducing the quota is under consideration, since listeners are migrating towards streaming platforms, as there are no ads. I understand that Cogeco’s ask is linked to significant financial pressures. I feel a great deal of compassion because my colleagues and I are going through an unprecedented revenue crisis.

The industry is constantly evolving. I have, in fact, never produced two albums the same way. I don’t claim to be a commercial artist and I never really wanted to be one. Even if commercial radio was never at the heart of my marketing strategy, I recognize the essential role it plays in the musical ecosystem and I don’t want to see it disappear. Weakening language protection mechanisms helps no one. These cuts protect their profit margins.

Instead, we should work together to find solutions that support businesses and protect French. I have four to propose, in fact.

The first solution, we already talked about; it involves regulating digital platforms. They should be subject to French-language and Canadian music discoverability requirements. Using an algorithm-based playlist that, with the help of machines, makes suggestions based on what songs a person previously listened to and the artists they follow on Spotify, for example, would help algorithms find and suggest French-language music. To make Spotify do it, Canadian musical metadata must be normalized and require the inclusion of both language and country of origin. It’s common, here at home in Canada, but it’s not the standard.

The second solution involves acting in an intersectional way. Last week, on Facebook, the Association canadienne-française de l’Ontario de Prescott et Russell sounded the alarm. Some new car models are now being sold without an FM radio. Before the trend becomes more widespread, the disappearance of FM radio should be dealt with.

The third solution would be to create financial incentives, such as tax credits, encouraging businesses to buy advertising from French-language private and community radio.

Finally, in fourth place, I suggest imposing a minimum quota for French-language music, for example 5%, on English-language commercial radio stations.

The French language would be protected through brave, future-facing choices.

I’m ready to work with you to build a sustainable ecosystem, an ecosystem in which our voices, all our voices, can be heard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much, Ms. Normand.

We will now go to questions from members.

Mr. Godin has the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank Ms. Jamet and Ms. Normand for being with us today.

Your testimony was very interesting. We can see that the points of view of the artist and the broadcast company are not all that different.

I'll start with you, Ms. Jamet. At the outset, you talked about the inequity between the regulations that apply to your company and those that are imposed on the web giants. Based on what you said, it's a matter of unfair competition.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

[Caroline Jamet]

Thank you for your question.

Yes, it's unfair competition because there is currently a double standard in our industry.

On the one hand, Canadian broadcasters are constrained by extremely demanding rules. On the other hand, we have platforms that are not regulated, that are eating into our revenues and taking away our audiences, and that have tremendous resources at their disposal.

Transformational changes need to be made in our industries. We also need to adjust business models to adapt to the market. In the meantime, we are seeing our revenues melt away and foreign platforms' revenues increase astronomically.

I think that, in our society, it is important for private media to be strong. Today, we're in an environment where the public broadcaster is funded and where there's really a steamroller ahead of us, private radio stations. Action needs to be taken. When these rules were imposed on us, those platforms did not exist.

So the system needs to be rebalanced, and it's a matter of urgency. Action really needs to be taken now because, if private media lose their space, who will play that role? Foreign platforms clearly will not.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Jamet.

This is an observation. The broadcasting, audio, television and even newspaper ecosystem is in an anglophone ocean. As you said, regulations were created in the past, but we have to evolve.

What do you think of the idea of bringing together, very effectively and very quickly, industry stakeholders, including artists like Ms. Normand, to find a solution?

I come from private radio and I see that it is on the verge of extinction. It's time to take action, as you said earlier.

Is bringing industry players together and working together a potential solution? You have to understand that the purpose of the motion I moved here at the Standing Committee on Official Languages is not to punish or argue with anyone or to further regulate private radio stations. Rather, its goal is to figure out with you how to ensure your basic sustainability by enabling our artists to be broadcast through you.

Can the option of a summit be added to your recommendations as a potential solution?

[Caroline Jamet]

We're always open to discussion. However, you're putting your finger on other industries. You're talking about television. I can also tell you about newspapers. The radio industry is the big forgotten industry when it comes to support. Today, newspapers receive support for journalistic resources. The television model was built so that there would be tax credits to support Canadian production.

Radio funds 100% of its content and receives no support. Radio doesn't get the same treatment as other media. We produce Canadian content, and radio is a partner of choice in the areas of society, charity, culture, information and public debate. That is a fundamental role.

The study I cited earlier—I would be happy to submit it—also shows the extent to which Canadians agree on the importance of that role. I think a special interest must be taken in radio and the support we receive must be considered, as radio is the ultimate local medium.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

As I often say, Ms. Jamet, radio is the medium closest to the usage period, and it's a very interesting selling point for selling advertising on your platforms.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the federal government's investment. Do you receive any grants from the federal government?

[Caroline Jamet]

We actually received funding from Google for the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, or CRTC, project. It's a small amount. Going back to what I was saying earlier, we don't have access to the Canadian journalism labour tax credit. We don't have access to the credit for television.

To answer your question, the federal government's advertising investment is meagre compared to the investment—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So you get little to no subsidy.

[Caroline Jamet]

That's correct.